Indeed it is dependent on how both sides are defining their borders but it is my understanding that China's claim or interpretation of there the border is is at finger 4. Not finger 2. If it is the case that China's claim is to finger 2 rather than 4, while India's is at finger 8 which is no disputed, then China has at this moment lost fingers 2 to 4. China used to patrol up to finger 2 on some occasions while Indians patrolled up to finger 8. If this also happens to be where each side claims their borders go up to, then the position of the current buffer zone is a good compromise somewhere in between, maybe with slight favour given to China.
Ladakh Flash Point
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Indeed it is dependent on how both sides are defining their borders but it is my understanding that China's claim or interpretation of there the border is is at finger 4. Not finger 2. If it is the case that China's claim is to finger 2 rather than 4, while India's is at finger 8 which is no disputed, then China has at this moment lost fingers 2 to 4. China used to patrol up to finger 2 on some occasions while Indians patrolled up to finger 8. If this also happens to be where each side claims their borders go up to, then the position of the current buffer zone is a good compromise somewhere in between, maybe with slight favour given to China.
There is a Chinese base at finger 6 since at least 2004. There is no way India patrolled till finger 8.
Similarly there is an Indian base at finger 4. So Chinese patrols couldn't have gone beyond that. And why would Chinese patrols even try to go beyond finger 4 when their own claim line ends at finger 4?
As others have mentioned, the only thing India lost in this episode is its fictitious LAC. Indian patrols will now limit themselves to Chinese claim line. But given that India never built any permanent structure, not even a tent beyond China's claim line, I don't know why folks like Ajay Shukla are making this such a huge deal. Permanent structures >> Patrols.
The embarrassing thing for these Indians is the US intelligence hasn't acknowledged PLA deaths. Indian papers are always putting words in other's mouths like US intelligence thinks this, a US source said that... none of these things have happened. US intelligence has only commented on this crisis with India losing many lives. They've literally said nothing and published no account of their findings, particularly on PLA deaths. India media is being the daring one now making blatantly fake news. I guess they have to now that the Indian military and government have been humbled by China and no longer daring to make any moves outside of using its propaganda machine for internal soothing.
Both sides have conducted walks and picnics deep into the other's claims. India has always claimed up to and including finger 8. China's official claims have been up to finger 4 but have conducted patrols well into India's claims like India does to China. So the patrols don't really say that much. Official claims do. Anyway these fingers are just one end point. The lines drawn from the fingers at the lake to Galwan in the north west are more iffy and few know the real details when it comes to claims but we can extrapolate from the end points. CCP is always silent on these things and India is a mess of confusion and contradicting stories. Also the Indians have been proven to have lied about many things and misrepresented nearly all of them at some point, so who cares anymore. The drama is over on the ground. Let's see how India does with their boycott China movement.
How did either sides' patrols conducted these 'picnics', I wonder. Did they fly over the opponent's bases by flapping their wings? I am not talking about decades past. Once a base is built, that's it. Patrolling gets cut off. India can claim till Qinghai. Will matter zilch.
There wasn't a single, solitary Indian structure beyond China's claim line. All India lost is its fictitious LAC. This is why Modi managed to weather the political fallout.
I am confused about 2 point.
1. Going by post 1686, india has given up their "claimed" territory. Is that true?
2. Who is in charge of that valley where clash took place? Galwan i think it was.
1. Going by post 1686, india has given up their "claimed" territory. Is that true?
2. Who is in charge of that valley where clash took place? Galwan i think it was.
This clip reminds even of myself bombarded by tons of negatives and sinister news by Western media on China everyday, seems like the more China been boogieman the better their viewership. Western seriously need a fact checkers on all those accusations, some are valid but many are lies. Media indirectly leading us to the point-of-no-return and into war as they created a situation where's it's unpopular for politicians to act re-conciliatory towards China, when people already convinced China's evil and need to be put down.
Not at all. A couple of points to clear up the confusion:
1) Regarding the new status quo in Pangong Tso, where India can no longer patrol up to Finger 8, here's what Shukla said a month ago (from his June 20 article): "True, at the Pangong Tso they have occupied territory well inside Finger 8, where Indian patrols regularly went. But this could be because Finger 8 is uncomfortably close to the Xinjiang-Tibet Highway, for which the PLA is creating a territorial buffer. Alternatively it may be the plan to eventually withdraw from here, tossing India a face-saver while retaining the tactically crucial heights overlooking the DBDSO road." Source
2) Let's examine this "buffer" terminology, which is incorrectly being used by the Indian media. In order to understand how "buffers" work, we need to look at the claim lines first. In the same article (from a month ago) Shukla provided the only map which actually matters (all the satellite images spammed on this thread are comical attempts at self delusion.) See below for the demarcation of China's 1959/60 claim lines (dotted), versus India's claimed border (which was actually Britain's claimed border). Notice how all the recent clashes (Depsang/Galwan/Hotspring/Pangong Tso) are all deep within the Indian/British claimed borderline. So who has the actual "buffer" here? Clearly, not India.
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