Ladakh Flash Point

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Richard Santos

Captain
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Actually when someone jumped in and say that morale is actually of no use in future war and that was not the making of a real army, I will just ignore the said person.
so says the pencil pusher.

The fact is in recent military history, armies which went into wars thinking morale is a separate element that confers the decisive advantage upon itself over its enemy is more often then not quickly disabused of that notion and brutally punished for its presumptions
 
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solarz

Brigadier
so says the pencil pusher.

The fact is in recent military history, armies which went into wars thinking morale is a separate element that confers the decisive advantage upon itself over its enemy is more often then not quickly disabused of that notion and brutally punished for its presumptions

Yeah? Name some examples.

I'll give you some counter examples first: Korean War, Vietnam War.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
so says the pencil pusher.

The fact is in recent military history, armies which went into wars thinking morale is a separate element that confers the decisive advantage upon itself over its enemy is more often then not quickly disabused of that notion and brutally punished for its presumptions
Tell me... Is the morale of US soldiers high? Morale is if multiple layers, blind morale as in some one high from drugs will quickly be dampened and ass kicked. But morale that stemmed from good training, confidence in their own military, in their own believes (whether they are brain washed or not) is another matter all together. Of course you wouldn't know that... The US lead technological advancement during Vietnam war was hard pressed against much North Vietnamese. A more superior US led coalition force in Korea, found themselves hard pressed against the Chinese and North Koreans. Heck, even the Taliban and Iraqi is making lives difficult for your so call real army.
 

Gaspowder

Just Hatched
Registered Member
so says the pencil pusher.

The fact is in recent military history, armies which went into wars thinking morale is a separate element that confers the decisive advantage upon itself over its enemy is more often then not quickly disabused of that notion and brutally punished for its presumptions
The last army which thought that moral was not as serious as it seems and went to war was the Saudi in Yemen.

As we can see, Saudi was repeatedly devastated by Houthis even though they were heavily supported by American, abandoning columns of M1 Abrams to Houthis who don't even have tanks or any proper AA system. Saudi have superiority at Air, Sea and Land, yet they are losing the battles after battles and gradually the entire war.

War is a matter of live and death, not a picnic for medals. I doubt technology will make any different if your troop could no longer bear any casualties and at the breaking point.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
In WWII, when German formations were operationally defeated, they surrendered. The same was not true of the Japanese. Does that mean the Germans had inferior morale? Was the German Army less effective than the Japanese Imperial Army?

No one understands the mechanics of Morale. Both the public and private sector have been trying to tinker with 'morale' for decades, and nothing has yielded repeatable results. Usually, such attempts just expose ideological bias. We know that "Morale" alone will not save you from losing, nor will it give you victory by itself; however, you will collapse psychologically at the first sign of serious trouble without it. But "Morale" is too fuzzy a concept for mathematical analysis. What I do know, is that "morale" is a variable, not a parameter. The same person/culture/army can have +100 morale at one moment, and -100 morale five minutes later. This means morale has to be rooted in something else, something much deeper and more fundamental. It is pointless to discuss this issue superficially using a few hand-wavy examples.
 
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