Ladakh Flash Point

Xsizor said:

Indeed and LAC as a working concept has disintegrated in Depsang ( for the time being).
As China is just a couple of odd kilometers away from its Claim line and India is 20 some km away from even its LAC. What use is the concept anymore?

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China is about 10 km from its perception, India is about 30 km from its perception. to be specific. Keep in mind we are talking about differing perceptions of the lac. The full extent of China's claims aren't clear.

At Depsang, the patrolling points are a little away from the perceived LAC like in other areas, and this is called the limit of patrolling. Soldiers don’t go beyond the points, even though the LAC is still ahead.


"However, Depsang is an area where the perception of the LAC is starkly different between China and India. According to locally established agreements, both sides were allowed patrolling until certain areas that fell into individual perceptions of the LAC, but sources said the practice “came under stress” after the Doklam stand-off of 2017.



“The Depsang issue is different from the current stand-off that is taking place between India and China. The Chinese have been blocking India’s patrol from bottleneck area to PP 11, PP12, PP12 A and PP 13. This has been happening from before the current tensions at LAC,” a source in the know said.




Another source said that Indians, too, have blocked Chinese patrols in the Depsang. However, this is because the Chinese perceived LAC is beyond the Bottleneck area (around 18-20 km from LAC) and just 1.5 km from Burtse, where the Chinese reached their claim line in 2015 during Chinese President Xi Jinping’s India visit."

twineedle said:

China is about 10 km from its perception, India is about 30 km from its perception. to be specific. Keep in mind we are talking about differing perceptions of the lac. The full extent of China's claims aren't clear.

At Depsang, the patrolling points are a little away from the perceived LAC like in other areas, and this is called the limit of patrolling. Soldiers don’t go beyond the points, even though the LAC is still ahead.


"However, Depsang is an area where the perception of the LAC is starkly different between China and India. According to locally established agreements, both sides were allowed patrolling until certain areas that fell into individual perceptions of the LAC, but sources said the practice “came under stress” after the Doklam stand-off of 2017.



“The Depsang issue is different from the current stand-off that is taking place between India and China. The Chinese have been blocking India’s patrol from bottleneck area to PP 11, PP12, PP12 A and PP 13. This has been happening from before the current tensions at LAC,” a source in the know said.




Another source said that Indians, too, have blocked Chinese patrols in the Depsang. However, this is because the Chinese perceived LAC is beyond the Bottleneck area (around 18-20 km from LAC) and just 1.5 km from Burtse, where the Chinese reached their claim line in 2015 during Chinese President Xi Jinping’s India visit."

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China is some few km from its perception of Claim Line and India is 30 km away from its perception of LAC. To be specific. I don't think we need to discuss China's Claim in Depsang, do we ?
LAC/ Claim line of China in that region has now became merely a a fancy instrument.


Lest some forget

TWO STEPS FORWARD ONE STEP BACK.

1. Indeed China may have moved to satisfy its claim line albeit temporarily in Burtze. China seems to have taken a step back/ had a stepback.
2. But China has continued to build up beyond the Bottleneck in Infrastructure and equipment. It has Solidified that position.

I believe Depsang situation will remain unresolved. China is wary of India cutting of its Highway to the east indeed but there is a Siachen/ Pakistan angle here too. I'm fairly sure China won't try to cement itself in Burtze.

Xsizor said:

China is some few km from its perception of Claim Line and India is 30 km away from its perception of LAC. To be specific. I don't think we need to discuss China's Claim in Depsang, do we ?
LAC/ Claim line of China in that region has now became merely a a fancy instrument.


Lest some forget

TWO STEPS FORWARD ONE STEP BACK.

1. Indeed China may have moved to satisfy its claim line albeit temporarily in Burtze. China seems to have taken a step back/ had a stepback.
2. But China has continued to build up beyond the Bottleneck in Infrastructure and equipment. It has Solidified that position.

Click to expand...

I thought we are discussing perceptions of LAC and not claims? I believe I have already explained where India and China's perceptions of the LAC lie.

twineedle said:

I thought we are discussing perceptions of LAC and not claims? I believe I have already explained where India and China's perceptions of the LAC lie.

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Didn't explain but you may entice this thread with a zoomed in depiction of both LAC and Claim line of China in 2020 in Depsang region.
We all would learn and be informed better.

China's exact claims are not clear though its perception of the lac has been just behind Burtse, as explained in that article in the Print by Snehesh Alex Philip

twineedle said:

China's exact claims are not clear though its perception of the lac has been just behind Burtse,

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Exactly. So did China say where it's LAC is in Burtze region? I've read in Indian media about how China in the past has made patrols to Burtze but LAC is usually just beyond a patrol point.

I've also read that with its temporary posts in Burtze China satisfied its claims. Hence.

jfy1155 said:

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That's a fun trigonometry problem for the PLA's battery commanders to solve, with all mountains in the area. Hypothetically though, in this constricted terrain, with all Indian heavy armor locations known (they are just sitting ducks in static positions), a few MRLS cluster strikes can wipe out most of India's armor in one fell swoop. Combined with the fact that India has horrible logistics, due partly to the terrain on their side, that's a potential checkmate move.

Sorry, I have not been following the recent 500 pages.

Does anyone have a credible (non-Indian) article suggesting that China secured their 1959 original claims? Thank you in advance.

Much of the discussion on the LAC, Claim lines, Patrol Points etc has been from the perspective of India. There are materials to go about facilitating such discussions. China, on the other hand, isn't really that open. The nature of Indian politics warrant attention to these entities and processes, and border disputes are clearly a domestic political issue?

The original " China secured 19XX line " was from an Indian politician / personality itself. I'm doubtful as to what exactly are China's claims since 1962. Seems like China has shelved looking to settle on any fixed claim since

1. This means less maneuvering space in that region in the future regarding anything related to Pakistan and its node of BRI ( CPEC).
2. Attention falling to South Tibet part where India can really open a good front .

(note: few pages back I remarked that China had settled border disputes with many SE nations and included Combodia. But Combodia doesn't share a border with China. It is Laos which settled the border disputes.)