Korean War 70 years later Win Lose and A draw

Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Crazy idea that would certainly led to WW III No wonder Truman ditch this crazy guy Anyway China commemorate the 70th anniversary of Korean war with a bang a not so subtle dig at US
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In Xi’s Homage to Korean War, a Jab at the U.S.
China is commemorating the war with a barrage of nationalistic propaganda. “They smashed the myth that the American military was invincible,” China’s leader said.

An event marking the 70th anniversary of China’s participation in the Korean War at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Friday.

An event marking the 70th anniversary of China’s participation in the Korean War at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on Friday.Credit...Carlos Garcia Rawlins/Reuters

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  • Oct. 23, 2020Updated 7:06 a.m. ET
SEOUL, South Korea — First China’s leader, Xi Jinping, visited the national military museum in Beijing and hailed the country’s “victory in the war to resist American aggression and aid Korea.” Then he wrote a public letter to veterans in a retirement home in Sichuan.
On Friday, culminating a weeklong commemoration of the Korean War, he delivered a pugnacious and at times visceral homage to those who sacrificed against the country’s enemies, the United States foremost of them all.
“The Chinese people don’t go looking for trouble, but nor do they fear it,” Mr. Xi said before hundreds of party officials, military officers and aged veterans in the Great Hall of the People in Beijing. “Confronted with any hardships or dangers, the calves of their legs will not shake, and their backs will not bend.”

For Mr. Xi and the country’s propagandists, the anniversary of China’s entry into the Korean War 70 years ago this week could hardly have come at a more opportune time. The country, in their telling, is once again facing
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by a superpower determined to thwart China’s rise. This time the United States, under President Trump, has targeted China’s trade policy, its technological advances and its territorial ambitions.

The anniversary unfolded with a barrage of commemorative events, exhibitions, television documentaries and feature films. They all conveyed the same message: The Chinese people have stood up to the United States before and, regardless of the costs, they will again.


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Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
China set the record straight on Korean war
Seventy years ago, the Chinese People's Volunteers (CPV) crossed the Yalu River and fought alongside the army of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) against the Republic of Korea (ROK) and U.S.-led UN forces. A total of 2.9 million CPV soldiers entered the battlefield, 197,653 of whom sacrificed their lives in the War to Resist U.S. Aggression and Aid Korea (1950-1953 Korean War). As 2020 marks the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of the
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War, here are five facts you may not know about the conflict.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Momentous event when CCP decide to enter Korean war General Peng Dehuai is the deciding voice

U.S. violations of China's air space and the threat to its industry in the Northeast convinced the Chinese leadership to agree to send troops to Korea, despite the economic hardship and war-weariness China was experiencing. After U.S. forces crossed the 38th Parallel on October 7, 1950, Mao Zedong issued an order to form the Chinese People's Volunteer Army. This part of CGTN's documentary "Enemy on the doorstep: China's involvement in the Korean War" shows why Chinese leadership decided to get involved in the Korean War.
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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
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KenC said:
The full documentary by CGTN: Enemy on the doorstep: China's involvement in the Korean War

Click to expand...

Just watched this on CGTN. Words can not describe what those young men and women sacrificed in order to secure China's future. The decisions the leaders took dispite being undermined by China's closest ally, the Soviet Union is both brave and bold.

China had to fight without air cover. And.. .
I love this:

US had more firepower in one regiment than the whole Chinese corps.

And yet China fought MacArthur to a stand still. So much for such a great general.
Arrogance is MacArthur own greatest enemy.
 
M

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
On the effects of UN air power in the Korean War.

Fully 43% of CPV (Chinese People's Volunteers) trucks were lost to air attack and artillery, according to Gen. Hong Zuehi, Peng's deptuty commander. Peng wrote bitterly:
"Had the Chinese controlled the skies during the early offensive campaigns, the American and British invaders would have already been eliminated from Korea".
Gen. Nam II, NK's chief negotiator, told his his UN counterparts:
"I would like to tell you frankly that in fact without direct support of your tactical aerial bombing alone, your ground forces would have been completely unable to hold their present positions."

Near constant air-attacks sapped CPV morale. A captured CPV soldier: "I think it is quite impossible that with manpower alone China can defeat the USA, which fights scientifically with the newest weapons of army and aircraft." Fear of air attack was a common theme, some captured soldiers bitterly castigating officers back in Manchuria who had "deceived" CPV troops by telling them to "have no fear of enemy planes" as they could rely on protection of trenches. The reality was that trenches offered at best little protection and none whatsoever against napalm, the war's predominant air support weapon.

UN forces flew a total of 1,170,590 sorties, averaging over 1000 sorties per day. A total of 147 American fighters fell to enemy fighters: in turn 954 enemy aircraft, 792 of which were Mig-15s, fell to USAF and USN/USMC. An overall win-lose ratio of 6.48:1.

The Korean War was notable for the early use of precision weapons. The USAAF employed its 1000lb VB-3 Razon with surprisingly encouraging results: of 489 Razons dropped from B-29s, 331 hit their aim points, a 68% success rate. This is in contrast to CAS reviews which found that it took 50 bombs to destroy one enemy truck, and only 2 out of 100 0.50 cal rounds actually hit a targeted vehicle.

The Korean War was notorious for devastating strategic bombing by USAAF. MacArthur authorized firebombing of all cities and villages in NK. Speaking to gen. Stratemeyer's request to firebomb Kanggye.
MacArthur said:
Burn it if you so desire. Not only that, Strat, but burn and destroy as a lesson any other of those towns that you consider of military value to the enemy.
Click to expand...

In Nov 1950, MacArthur said: "Unfortunately, this area will be left a desert." By "this area" MacArthur meant the entire area between "our present positions and the border."

In August 1951, war correspondent
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stated that he had witnessed "a complete devastation between the Yalu River and the capital." He said that there were "no more cities in North Korea." He added, "My impression was that I am traveling on the moon because there was only devastation—every city was a collection of chimneys."

In summer and fall of 1952, USAF launched a strategic bombing campaign against NK industrial targets, rice production, logistic facilities and hydroelectric plants, knocking out 90% of the country's electric power and destroying thousands of acres of rice fields. As a result the North Koreans began to waver and became increasingly unsteady, and some members of the North Korean leadership began to panic.

In October 1952 TF77 began "Cherokee" strikes with the goal to blow up supply and ammo dumps between artillery and bomb lines. Eighth Army's James Van Fleet stated after the war:
"The Cherokee strikes really clobbered the enemy. If followed up by ground action, they might have caused a breakthrough or caused the enemy to react violently to restore his lines, consuming his reserves of manpower and ammmunition until he was exhausted over a period of a week or ten days. Then the ground armies could have been released to produce a war of movement instead of a war of digging in."
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Max Demian said:
On the effects of UN air power in the Korean War.

Fully 43% of CPV (Chinese People's Volunteers) trucks were lost to air attack and artillery, according to Gen. Hong Zuehi, Peng's deptuty commander. Peng wrote bitterly:
"Had the Chinese controlled the skies during the early offensive campaigns, the American and British invaders would have already been eliminated from Korea".
Gen. Nam II, NK's chief negotiator, told his his UN counterparts:
"I would like to tell you frankly that in fact without direct support of your tactical aerial bombing alone, your ground forces would have been completely unable to hold their present positions."

Near constant air-attacks sapped CPV morale. A captured CPV soldier: "I think it is quite impossible that with manpower alone China can defeat the USA, which fights scientifically with the newest weapons of army and aircraft." Fear of air attack was a common theme, some captured soldiers bitterly castigating officers back in Manchuria who had "deceived" CPV troops by telling them to "have no fear of enemy planes" as they could rely on protection of trenches. The reality was that trenches offered at best little protection and none whatsoever against napalm, the war's predominant air support weapon.

UN forces flew a total of 1,170,590 sorties, averaging over 1000 sorties per day. A total of 147 American fighters fell to enemy fighters: in turn 954 enemy aircraft, 792 of which were Mig-15s, fell to USAF and USN/USMC. An overall win-lose ratio of 6.48:1.

The Korean War was notable for the early use of precision weapons. The USAAF employed its 1000lb VB-3 Razon with surprisingly encouraging results: of 489 Razons dropped from B-29s, 331 hit their aim points, a 68% success rate. This is in contrast to CAS reviews which found that it took 50 bombs to destroy one enemy truck, and only 2 out of 100 0.50 cal rounds actually hit a targeted vehicle.

The Korean War was notorious for devastating strategic bombing by USAAF. MacArthur authorized firebombing of all cities and villages in NK. Speaking to gen. Stratemeyer's request to firebomb Kanggye.


In Nov 1950, MacArthur said: "Unfortunately, this area will be left a desert." By "this area" MacArthur meant the entire area between "our present positions and the border."

In August 1951, war correspondent
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stated that he had witnessed "a complete devastation between the Yalu River and the capital." He said that there were "no more cities in North Korea." He added, "My impression was that I am traveling on the moon because there was only devastation—every city was a collection of chimneys."

In summer and fall of 1952, USAF launched a strategic bombing campaign against NK industrial targets, rice production, logistic facilities and hydroelectric plants, knocking out 90% of the country's electric power and destroying thousands of acres of rice fields. As a result the North Koreans began to waver and became increasingly unsteady, and some members of the North Korean leadership began to panic.

In October 1952 TF77 began "Cherokee" strikes with the goal to blow up supply and ammo dumps between artillery and bomb lines. Eighth Army's James Van Fleet stated after the war:
"The Cherokee strikes really clobbered the enemy. If followed up by ground action, they might have caused a breakthrough or caused the enemy to react violently to restore his lines, consuming his reserves of manpower and ammmunition until he was exhausted over a period of a week or ten days. Then the ground armies could have been released to produce a war of movement instead of a war of digging in."
Click to expand...

With all those air power and material, logistic superiority all they achieve a draw at best They were pushed to where they are started 39 parallel! So all those bragging is useless and the final outcome is what count.
If the war happened today the US forces will be decimated for sure. Back then China was poor. But for superb tactic and the bravery of Chinese soldier, save the day. I know it is a humongous sacrifice and blood. But it bought China peace that lasted until today allowing it to better the living standard of her people. As such it is sacrifice worth taking Mao and Deng make the right call and Chinese people understand that war is necessary to buy peace just as all those soldiers said. Mao even lost his beloved son Mao Anying in the war

Interesting video It show China fought alone and show the duplicity and cowardice of Soviet Union
 
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M

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
With all those air power and material, logistic superiority all they achieve a draw at best They were pushed to where they are started 39 parallel! So all those bragging is useless and the final outcome is what count.
Click to expand...
That's either a lie or you are ignorant. The UN forces ended up controlling more territory after the war than before the war. So by that account, they "won".

Interesting video It show China fought alone and show the duplicity and cowardice of Soviet Union
Click to expand...
The Soviet did supply China with weaponry, including tanks and jet fighters. However, they insisted that China pays for them.

As such it is sacrifice worth taking Mao and Deng make the right call and Chinese people understand that war is necessary to buy peace just as all those soldiers said.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this part. If PRC hadn't attacked the UN forces, hundreds of thousands of Chinese families would not have lost their loved ones. The UN forces would've stopped at Yalu and Korea would have been unified according to the UN mandate. Much better still would've been if the Soviet Union and PRC had not supported NK in its invasion of the South. Millions of people dead and countless more lives shattered, because they didn't want to pursue a peaceful solution.

Soviet cables said:
According to both Soviet records, Mao was eager to help the North Koreans. The CCP Chairman
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– weapons in tow – from his own army to the Korean People’s Army. When Kim Il asked about receiving extra ammunition for the troops, Mao reportedly said he would “give to the Koreans as much as they need.” Mao’s pledges would certainly boost the fighting capacity of the KPA.
Click to expand...

Shtykov reported (presumably based on subsequent debriefings from Kim Il and Kim Il Sung) that Mao had said that “Korea could see military action at any moment.” Mao reassured Kim Il, noting that the North Koreans could count on support from the Soviet Union and China. Mao also purportedly remarked that Chinese soldiers could fight alongside North Korea’s army, and the enemy (the Americans) would be none the wiser. “They are all black-[haired],” Mao crudely joked.

Very early on the morning of May 14, Stalin wrote directly to Mao. “In light of the changed international situation,” Stalin explained, “ agree with the proposal of the Koreans to
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.”

Although Stalin approved, he left the final decision to Mao, writing that “the question should be decided finally by the Chinese and Korean comrades together.” Should Mao and the Chinese leadership dissent, “the decision on the question [of war] should be postponed.”

Given what took place on June 25, 1950, Mao must have signed off.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
@Hendrik_2000

Hendrik, the two paragraph below showed the pro-western, and anti-China mentality is strong in this one. And he claimed he's here to learn about all things Chinese. Gee.

"That's either a lie or you are ignorant. The UN forces ended up controlling more territory after the war than before the war. So by that account, they "won"."

Noticed is the UN forces without reliasing it's just western forces. US UK and OZ and couple of others. (Please spare me the UN resolution BS). He then went on in a childish way that wars are won because of territory gained! Gee. He never watch those videos we put up. What a waste of space. Or read yours and our post. We clearly state, the war was won because of the time it has bought to China allowing her to develop unhindered. That's the real value of this war.

"If PRC hadn't attacked the UN forces, hundreds of thousands of Chinese families would not have lost their loved ones. The UN forces would've stopped at Yalu and Korea would have been unified according to the UN mandate. Much better still would've been if the Soviet Union and PRC had not supported NK in its invasion of the South. Millions of people dead and countless more lives shattered, because they didn't want to pursue a peaceful solution."

The above paragraph is perhaps the most ignorant of all that I had seen here. There's so many inaccuracy I don't know where to begin.

UN mandate for unificatuon. Good one. The very fact USA and USSR decided to partition Korea the first place.. mmm

And then US would've stopped at Yalu river is nativity to the extreme. It seems we are debating with someone under age.

And the icing on the cake is all the millions of death is China's fault all the time! Who Would be guess!
 
LawLeadsToPeace

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Max Demian said:
I don't understand this part. If PRC hadn't attacked the UN forces, hundreds of thousands of Chinese families would not have lost their loved ones. The UN forces would've stopped at Yalu and Korea would have been unified according to the UN mandate. Much better still would've been if the Soviet Union and PRC had not supported NK in its invasion of the South. Millions of people dead and countless more lives shattered, because they didn't want to pursue a peaceful solution
Click to expand...
Based on the telegram in the older post indicating Chinese Communist support for North Korea’s reunification campaign, I concur on the second part. However the first part is just naive unless there are documents indicating that the US and other UN members will not station troops nor intervene in the Korean Peninsula ever again. Assuming UN forces just stopped at the Yalu river and the Chinese Communist intervention didn’t happen, based on the logic of the US’s containment strategy, US and maybe even UN troops will be stationed there; this is something the Chinese Communist leadership couldn’t accept no matter the cost.
 
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