JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Indianfighter]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Ok, but what will the export price be? Because after all, that is the price which China and Pakistan will be selling these planes at...

Exactly. You got it right : the price at which a customer will ultimately purchase an FC-1 piece, or in other words, the international market rate. No 50% premium and no local price to PLAAF.

This price is the one with which it will actually compete with Russian, Eu and US aircraft. The unit cost of a MiG-29 sold to Slovakia is between $25 - 30 mn minus weapons (Slovakia used it's old stock of Russian weapons). The cost for a Hawk trainer without weapons is $24 mn. With weapons, spares, and other assortments it is $40 mn as IN got for it's MiG-29 KUB. Pilot training and simulators don't add that much to unit cost.

So, that's what I'd like to know how much will a customer, say, Sudan, pay for FC-1 apiece.

 

[crobato]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Exactly. You got it right : the price at which a customer will ultimately purchase an FC-1 piece, or in other words, the international market rate. No 50% premium and no local price to PLAAF.

This price is the one with which it will actually compete with Russian, Eu and US aircraft. The unit cost of a MiG-29 sold to Slovakia is between $25 - 30 mn minus weapons (Slovakia used it's old stock of Russian weapons). The cost for a Hawk trainer without weapons is $24 mn. With weapons, spares, and other assortments it is $40 mn as IN got for it's MiG-29 KUB. Pilot training and simulators don't add that much to unit cost.

So, that's what I'd like to know how much will a customer, say, Sudan, pay for FC-1 apiece.

Yeah right. Stop quoting used refurbished MiG-29s.

 

[Londo Molari]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Not exactly....

Those nations seeking a more capable aircraft will fork over the money for the MiG-29. The MiG-29 has more range, a more powerful radar, and can carry more weapons, not to mention the more advanced avionics that can be incorporated.

A more comparable comparison would be to compare the MiG-29 to the J-10.

You completely missed my point. If you follow the discussion that I was replying to, you can see that I was not talking about nations seeking a more capable aircraft, but poor nations for whom a $15 million price tag is unbeatable for a brand new fourth generation fighter.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

I'm not saying that JF-17 faces competition from larger twin-engine Su-27/30, but rather that as even small air-forces (like Angola) demand no less than Su-27 or MiG-29 nowadays, they'll have apprehensions over aircraft that are not inducted in their home country.

Su-27 faces bigger logistics issue then JF-17, its bigger fighter, and smaller countries would be better of with low cost small lightweight fighters instead of large fighters such as Su-27.

(Not reffering to your post on this half of the post)

Small countries dont need that kind of range to protect airspace, JF-17 is quite sufficient.

JF-17 project was distrubuted between 2 nations not 1, like the J-10, so expensive for each nation was ~$250 million.

 

[Indianfighter]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Yeah right. Stop quoting used refurbished MiG-29s.

No the prices quoted in the Ria were clearly for new purchases.

Su-27 faces bigger logistics issue then JF-17, its bigger fighter, and smaller countries would be better of with low cost small lightweight fighters instead of large fighters such as Su-27.

Small countries dont need that kind of range to protect airspace, JF-17 is quite sufficient.

While I agree with your reasoning about Su-27 being much more maintenance heavy, the trend amongst small nations demonstrates otherwise. Anyway, JF-17's nearest competitor cost-wise, is the MiG-29. If for a just few more million dollars if one gets a twin-engine heavier combat aircraft, air-forces will go for it than an FC-1.

 

[tphuang]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

No the prices quoted in the Ria were clearly for new purchases.


While I agree with your reasoning about Su-27 being much more maintenance heavy, the trend amongst small nations demonstrates otherwise. Anyway, JF-17's nearest competitor cost-wise, is the MiG-29. If for a just few more million dollars if one gets a twin-engine heavier combat aircraft, air-forces will go for it than an FC-1.

actually, the biggest competitor to JF-17 will be used F-16s that gets MLUed and possibly used/refurbished Mig-29s. countries get to decide whether they want a new fighter or an old fighter that's a little better.

 

[Pointblank]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

actually, the biggest competitor to JF-17 will be used F-16s that gets MLUed and possibly used/refurbished Mig-29s. countries get to decide whether they want a new fighter or an old fighter that's a little better.

Or, more cynically, one with solid product support, one with questionable product support, and one with unknown product support.

 

[PrOeLiTeZ]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Chinese maintenance equipment are more flexible then the Russians remember that. Also countries can install other avionics and weapons besides Chinese on the JF-17 airframe while the Mig-29/Su-27 must be Russian and can only use Russian munitions. Still for small nations with small airfield they still prefer single engine lighweight fighter instead of a heaveyweight room consuming one such as Su-27 nor can the afford it purhcase them in decent numbers for aerial protection.

Main competitor for JF-17 isn't really the Su-27 nor Mig-29 it will be the F-16 variants. The unknown products will be an advantage to a degree cause opposing forces won't know its capabilities but the purchasing nation will. Element of suprise. Also every new aircraft is unknown, F-35/F-22 unknown yet nations want to buy them. Based on some claim and statistics. JF-17 would target the US-NATO embargo nations and would be alternative to Russian weapons. More flexibility in deciding and putting pressure on other nations to give better deals.

Its a cheap fighter but really effective...you don't get that kind of platform much nowdays...theory of mine is JF-17 was purely designed for export and for some technology experiment/learning....some articles also have said this too. Maybe small batch will be delivered to fill in gaps.
sorry for the OFF TOPIC

 

[chuahkimhua]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Su-27 faces bigger logistics issue then JF-17, its bigger fighter, and smaller countries would be better of with low cost small lightweight fighters instead of large fighters such as Su-27.

(Not reffering to your post on this half of the post)

Small countries dont need that kind of range to protect airspace, JF-17 is quite sufficient.

JF-17 project was distrubuted between 2 nations not 1, like the J-10, so expensive for each nation was ~$250 million.

JF-17 is a cheaper fighter more suitable to third world market. It is more affordable compare with Mig 29.
It is a good buy for its price!

 

[CAMP]

Re: New JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Chinese maintenance equipment are more flexible then the Russians remember that. Also countries can install other avionics and weapons besides Chinese on the JF-17 airframe while the Mig-29/Su-27 must be Russian and can only use Russian munitions.

Even IAF is using Mig-29 and Su-27 clone of Su-30, both this fighter jet share avionics and weapons of multnational companies.

Still for small nations with small airfield they still prefer single engine lighweight fighter instead of a heaveyweight room consuming one such as Su-27 nor can the afford it purhcase them in decent numbers for aerial protection.

I think it depends more or less upon the threat they are facing in and at the same time wheather their JF-17 would be capable enough to face that threat. Suppose if Airforce of a particuler country have to face aircrafts like F-16, Mig-29, Su-27 with advanced avionics then even JF-17 have to equipped with such advanced applications as well, on top of its Aerodynamics, Awacs, ground based radar station also plays a pivtol role.

Main competitor for JF-17 isn't really the Su-27 nor Mig-29 it will be the F-16 variants. The unknown products will be an advantage to a degree cause opposing forces won't know its capabilities but the purchasing nation will. Element of suprise.

I guess every nation do release some sort of a information about radar, avionics, weapons they carry and hence opponent not necessarily need to do brainstorm about unknown capability of JF-17.