JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
I don't see a problem. Don't you see the ironic? As a Pakistan yourself, your country own both JF-17 and F-16 block 52. Soon getting J-10B with AESA which can be say the most advance from Chinese military.

If USA can enforce strict rules for PAF F-16 block 52. I don't see how China can't enforce strict rules on Turkish if Turkey is interested in J-10?

Anyway, Turkish r/s with western has already sour. The Israel/Palestine issue and recent invite of PLAAF to participate in their Air exercise more or less shows Turkey is slowly drifting away from western military.
I can see Turkey is convinced of China rising and is trying to get near her. I am convinced Turkey has no reason to get into good books of USA by disclosing the secret of J-10 if they managed to buy it.

Lion, I do not think you know military relationship between Pakistan and China? its nowhere near Turkish and China,which probably doesnt even exist, Sino-Pak go back decades in close military co-operation, secret dealing, Pakistan has always picked China over US, US they are good for weapons but not for when war comes

Sino-Pak is in competely different league, China knows Pakistan will never allow Americans on base where JF17 is stationed, there is mutual trust and respect between the two built over decades of proven wars and times of need, you cant compare that with Turkey, Turkey is a Nato member, Pakistans receieved nuclear capable M11 missiles and has in return co-operated with Chinese on captured Tomahawk missiles, Predator drones and F16s, you are playing different here
 

Lion

Senior Member
Lion, I do not think you know military relationship between Pakistan and China? its nowhere near Turkish and China,which probably doesnt even exist, Sino-Pak go back decades in close military co-operation, secret dealing, Pakistan has always picked China over US, US they are good for weapons but not for when war comes

Sino-Pak is in competely different league, China knows Pakistan will never allow Americans on base where JF17 is stationed, there is mutual trust and respect between the two built over decades of proven wars and times of need, you cant compare that with Turkey, Turkey is a Nato member, Pakistans receieved nuclear capable M11 missiles and has in return co-operated with Chinese on captured Tomahawk missiles, Predator drones and F16s, you are playing different here

I am awared of it. But from what I gather. Turkish r/s with US and Israel deteriorate so badly, they hardly trust each other already. Trust which is once broken is very hard to be mended. I doubt Turkey betraying the trust of the Chinese can hardly win back the trust of USA/Israel. Building a new r/s with a rising superpower is a much worthy route to conside than trying to mend back something, shall I say that?
 

Qasim57

New Member
China offered J-10s to other countries like Burma, so Turkey isn't absolutely off the list. Countries like Sweden, Yugoslavia, and even Pakistan have operated Eastern and Western aircraft simultaneously, and there are ways to make that work.

The point is moot because Turkey hasn't even expressed interest in the J-10, because this isn't what they are looking for. They are looking for something they can jointly manufacture, in the 4th Generation lightweight category. JF-17, F/A-50, and JAS-39 Gripen all classify as 4th Generation lightweight fighter aircraft. These three aircraft don't offer equal capability, and JF-17 doesn't seem to be on the top of the list for Turkey, there are factors that put these two aircraft above the JF-17, and there are factors that put the JF-17 above them.

For example, it's flight envelope would likely offer better manouverability over the Gripen, as delta-wings aren't as manouverable especially at sub-sonic speeds. Second factor is being US-independent, and this may or may not be very important to Turkey(seems like the whole reason they are going for this semi-indigenous route is to gain some independence, moving away from the US designs without compromising on performance too much).

Given that their Prime Minister even talked about the JF-17 publically, and how PAF officials publically talked at Farnborrough about Turkey's response(and request for presentations to their TuAF officials), and also about the PAF being invited to fly this aircraft at TuAF's 100th anniversary, I'd say that this aircraft could be a contender. I think our Chinese friends underestimate this little bird a bit, because it is a light aircraft that is not in the same category as the J-10(medium) and J-20(5th-Gen heavy-fighter). Or perhaps we tend to overestimate it because this aircraft's performance capabilities have been a pleasant surprise for us(out-performs the F-7s and Mirage aircraft it is replacing in avionics and flight-dynamics, being a small nimble aircraft).

The main questions determining whether it is a real contender, or just something the Turks use to make the Koreans/Swedes more reasonable, would be the aircraft's future block's avionics/radar package and how it compares. AND secondly, the engine - Russia's engine is not as good as US offerings, plus Russia may not be keen to enable it's competitor to sell to Turkey. WS-13A(or possibly B) could make a huge difference.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
Can someone link to an article about the espionage equipment found in the Turkish F-16? What was the impact on Turkish-American relations? How did the Americans explain that? Turkey is a NATO ally after all.
 

delft

Brigadier
China is helping to develop railways between itself and Europe through Central Asia and Afghanistan, through Iran and Turkey.
This promises a much closer economic and political connection between China and Turkey. Turkey will be thinking of this too.
 

Qasim57

New Member
Can someone link to an article about the espionage equipment found in the Turkish F-16? What was the impact on Turkish-American relations? How did the Americans explain that? Turkey is a NATO ally after all.

Here you go. I'm highlighting the specific area from the interview:
Q: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.
flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/06/must-read-tell-all-interview-w-1.html
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Here you go. I'm highlighting the specific area from the interview:

flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/06/must-read-tell-all-interview-w-1.html

How and where does a small tracking device such as the one mention above get its energy from to continue operating?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Sorry guys, but IMO there's too much off-topic discusion going on esp. about Turky, the Aviation Industry and now this ?! :mad:

Maybe You should take a look at the tread's topic ?


Deino
 
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