JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

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pshamim

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Hey Pshamim,

This is what I was afraid of. While I'm sure that your Pakistani sources are quite credible, this source is not. They routinely have pieces like this by amateurs on Chinese forums. I'm not saying this because I don't believe they have RCS reduction plans for JF-17, but just that the author yoyo_navy isn't someone with more insider knowledge than the rest of us.


Brother TPHuang,

Many ideas about the FC-1/JF-17 are being discussed in both China and Pakistan. I have heard few more that I am not prepared to divulge at this moment.

Please remember that basis of my earlier post is not the article above but a conversation last December with someone reliable in Pakistan. I posted the information only after the above article came out.

Evidently, the author must have some insider contacts to repeat what I already knew from my source.
 

tphuang

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

Brother TPHuang,

Many ideas about the FC-1/JF-17 are being discussed in both China and Pakistan. I have heard few more that I am not prepared to divulge at this moment.

Please remember that basis of my earlier post is not the article above but a conversation last December with someone reliable in Pakistan. I posted the information only after the above article came out.

Evidently, the author must have some insider contacts to repeat what I already knew from my source.
Your personal sources could know exactly what's going on inside CAC, but we will have to wait to find out.

I can only tell you that I see several articles like this every week appearing on Chinese forums first and then appearing on the military websites. I'm not sure who actually sent you this link or given you a translation, but from my past experience of reading yoyo_navy's posts, he is not someone I would put much faith in. And even if you read the article, the author was clearly guessing at what they could do to improve the performance of the plane. In fact, he also proposed using the Spectra EW suite. Seems like he just has an admiration for Rafale if you just ask me.
 

pshamim

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

According to a respected member at another forum, two JF-17s arrived in Pakistan today and will be participating in the Parade on March 23rd. More news will be provided when available
 

kca90

New Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

TPHuang! May be you can read and understand it better. I had heard about the RBE2 from some of my Pakistani sources until this appeared.

继J-10高调亮相之后,一度为人所津津热道的FC-1枭龙轻型战斗机似乎一下子失去了光芒,连其最忠心的客户巴基斯坦都忙不迭宣称要购买J-10。的确,和J-10相比,FC-1在很多方面都存在明显的差距;如果说J-10还能和美国最新的F-16改进型一较高下的话,那么FC-1只能说是借当代电子技术之优势,在电子设备方面比早期的F-16A/B先进一些,而机动性却远远不如。一旦中国决定将J-10推向国际市场,那么FC-1的前景将相当不妙。与此同时,美国近期推出了F-35“闪电II”隐身战斗机,它将成为F-16这种“国际战斗机”的嫡系传承者,预计全球装备量超过4000架。前有阻拦,后有追兵,FC-1作为一种出口型战斗机,前途在哪里?
  


  事实上FC-1还是有优点的,那就是价格便宜。一架FC-1售价可能不超过1500万美元,而J-10应该在2000~3000万美元左右,F-35则在4500~6000万美元之间(还是基于大量销售的前提下),FC-1的价格优势相当明显。但是从性价比上来说,FC-1可能还不如J-10,不然中国自己早就大量装备了。所以如果没有F-35的出现,FC-1可能会被J-10(假如中国大量出口J-10的话)压得死死的,在国际市场上没有立足之地。从这个角度看,纯粹依靠低成本已经难以成为低端战斗机的出路了。但是由于F-35的出现,情况却有了微妙的变化。J-10虽然性能超过FC-1,但是作为一种第三代战机,如果面临像F-35这样第四代战机的挑战,恐怕和FC-1一样都处于下风。从这个意义上说,FC-1和J-10的差距因为F-35的出现而变小了。

  再进一步设想,假如可以在FC-1的基础上作一些改进,使其具备一定的隐身性,那么也许FC-1能够咸鱼翻身,一举成为F-35在国际市场上的有力竞争者也说不定。另一方面,虽然F-35性能优异,但出于政治因素的原因,仍然有相当多的国家和地区无法得到,所以仍然存在一个特定的市场区间,是这种FC-1的改进型所能够一展身手的。另外,由于是外销机型,我们可以根据客户和市场的需求来灵活决定FC-1改进的方向,并和一些有合作意愿的发达国家(如法国)携手,获得一些必要得技术支援,来打破F-35垄断国际轻型战斗机市场的企图。

  从这个思路出发,笔者设想了一种FC-1的隐身改进型,如附图所示。改进的思路主要有以下三条,分别针对FC-1现有的不足:

  一、外形隐身化和武器内置化 ?

  FC-1总体上是采用中等后掠梯形机翼、两侧进气、单发单垂尾的常规布局。这种布局的好处是简单实用,虽然气动性能不如J-10的鸭式布局好,但是比J-10更有利于隐身化的改进。笔者设想用外倾的双垂尾代替单垂尾,并取消腹鳍;将机翼和平尾的外形做少许修改,使之前后缘保持平行,前机身(包括座舱)的横截面则修改为菱形,同时保持原有的DSI进气口和边条设计,这样一来,整体的外形隐身程度将得到极大的改善。如果加上隐身涂料和舱口锯齿化等措施,其前向RCS下降至0.05左右还是有可能的。隐身化的另一项重要措施是内置武器舱。由于FC-1采用两侧进气,所以可以很方便地在机腹设置一个半埋式的小型武器舱,以容纳两枚中距空空导弹或一枚500公斤级的制导武器。其鼓包式舱门与机腹平滑过渡,以减小对气动和隐身性能的影响,同时也最大限度地减少了对有限的机内空间的影响。同样采取两侧进气的F-35由于要考虑垂直起降型的需求,只能在机身两侧设置两个小型武器舱,从机身空间的利用率来看显得很不理想,以近30吨左右的最大起飞重量,在武器完全内置时却只能携带两枚1000磅的JDAM和两枚中距导弹。这样,在高危地区执行制空/截击任务时,FC-1隐改型和F-35实际上可以达到同样的武器携带量(两枚中距导弹);而执行对地任务时,FC-1隐改型的载弹量则为F-35的一半,也不算太差。

  二、机体减重并大量采用复合材料

  FC-1的空机重大约6.8吨,在轻型战机里面算是重的,而这主要是出于控制成本的考虑,所以没有大量采用复合材料。据称除了少量舱盖部位采用了复合材料之外,FC-1主要仍使用传统的高强度铝合金。相比之下,印度的LCA由于采用了高达45%的复合材料,空机重仅有5.5吨,由此可见,FC-1减重的空间还是比较大的。假如FC-1的复合材料使用率达到20%左右的话,预计空重可以降低到6吨以下。这样一来,虽然飞机的价格有所上涨,但带来的好处也是显而易见的。首先可以提高机动性,其次可以增加载油载弹量(并抵消由于敷设隐身涂料之后的增重),而且还在一定程度上提高了隐身性。

  三、升级发动机和电子设备

  FC-1的另一个软肋是发动机。目前采用的RD-93发动机最大加力推力为8.3吨,推重比7左右(按照中国/西方标准),如果机内半油并携带两枚中距导弹时的空战推重比大约为0.94,而F-16、J-10、F-35等战机的空战推重比均超过1。笔者设想FC-1隐改型换装推重比8左右、采用矢量推力喷口的泰山发动机,最大加力推力为8.8吨,同时由于机体减重,其空战推重比将达到1.1以上,从而机动性大为改善,完全可以和最新型的三代及四代战机在近距格斗中分庭抗礼。将来换装推比10的中推后机动性还将进一步提高。至于电子设备,首先要改进的就是飞行控制系统。FC-1出于成本的考虑,仅采用了双余度纵向电传控制,而其隐改型应该采用四余度电传控制,这将进一步提高其机动性能。其次是雷达方面,这是中国的弱项,所以可以考虑和法国合作,在“阵风”战斗机的RBE2雷达基础上发展出一种小型化的机载无源相控阵雷达,并引进“阵风”的多频谱电子自保护系统(SPECTRA)和前扇区光学系统(FSO),从而具备完善的战场环境感知能力。这样法国就算无法实现“阵风”出口零的突破,至少可以实现其技术的出口,也算是对多年潜心开发“阵风”的投入的一种补偿吧。


  经过上述改进,估计FC-1隐改型的价格可能会上涨近一倍,达到3000万美元左右。即便如此,但改进后的FC-1已经初步具备了和F-35对抗的实力,性价比明显超出。这样一款轻型隐身战斗机将在国际市场上对F-35构成严重的威胁,尤其对一些无法及时得到或买不起F-35的国家会产生强烈的吸引力。进一步设想一下,假如能够和法国携手打入几家欧盟国家的市场,那可是对欧盟对中国的军售禁令的极大讽刺啊!
  
  与此同时,法国由于“阵风”滞销,想必对于F-35之将要大行其道也是眼睛红通通的,如果能够借机推销其航空技术,顺手打击一下美国的军机市场,应该也是甘心乐意的吧!

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Can somebody please translate this. As using google is uncomprehendable.
Thanks
 

tphuang

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Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

According to a respected member at another forum, two JF-17s arrived in Pakistan today and will be participating in the Parade on March 23rd. More news will be provided when available

well, that confirms the earlier report that the planes were scheduled to arrive on March 10th. Normally, huitong is pretty accurate on these things.
 

maglomanic

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

well, that confirms the earlier report that the planes were scheduled to arrive on March 10th. Normally, huitong is pretty accurate on these things.

Actually Huitong missed by 8 days :p (kidding)
Great news!Looks like pt 06 was meant for PAF as well and might not have been something for PLAAF as was being suggested on forums.

Here is the post by Rommel on PakDef

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"Dear Members,

It gives me great pleasure to confirm that JF17 has finally come to Pakistan. The have arrived at Kamra in a semi knocked down state. The plane carrying them was an AN124. Two planes have come and they are PT04 and PT06.

The planes arrived in Pakistan on the 2nd of March. I am sorry I could not tell you guys the news due to the classified nature of the news. But now it is declassified. The assembly of the planes is complete and yesterday they performed the ground runs. Today Pt04 was supposed to fly but did not due to the very bad weather. But pretty soon the baby will fly.

I wanted to post some picture but they are still classified as restricted.

Congrats to all of you! Today is a happy day!

Cheers,
"
 

optionsss

Junior Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

"Dear Members,

It gives me great pleasure to confirm that JF17 has finally come to Pakistan. The have arrived at Kamra in a semi knocked down state. The plane carrying them was an AN124. Two planes have come and they are PT04 and PT06.

The planes arrived in Pakistan on the 2nd of March. I am sorry I could not tell you guys the news due to the classified nature of the news. But now it is declassified. The assembly of the planes is complete and yesterday they performed the ground runs. Today Pt04 was supposed to fly but did not due to the very bad weather. But pretty soon the baby will fly.

I wanted to post some picture but they are still classified as restricted.

Congrats to all of you! Today is a happy day!

Cheers,
"

That is a good news for both countries. Before this I actually thought because of the engine issue this bird wouldn't be able to be delivered until 2009, obviously if this is true, than that wouldn't be a problem at all.

Cheers:china:
 

big toothbrush

New Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

32300513fb8.jpg

32300494ug2.jpg

32300490hk3.jpg
 

sanwal

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

very nice pics..thanks for sharing.. big toothbrusg :) Can't wait to see the high res pics.

Cheers
 

Kilo636

Banned Idiot
Re: New JF-17/FC-1 thread

10 more days to go before we see this baby flying! Heeeee...
By the way,these photo is already consider good and clear enough to see!
 
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