JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[rhino123]

That's pretty irrelevant, most countries will either buy western products or Chinese/Russian products, regardless of what price and how good they are. Romania isn't gonna buy the JF-17 no matter what.

Correct. sometime it is not the best piece of hardware that would win the contract. Most of the time it boils down to... Politics... something like, what is the most politically correct type of equipment.

And sometime it is the stereo type sentiments for the originator of the hardware that will be sold.

 

[Lion]

But it may really look bleak if China J-10 enters the market to compete with JF-17.

I think the recent airshow conduct by PLAAF showcasing J-10 to many countries is a sign of its intention to market to potential buyer for J-10.

With Iran accepting new terms of nuclear treaty. It may clear way for China to sell J-10 to Iran to upgrade its aging airforce.

 

[rhino123]

But I think J-10 and JF-17 might be aiming for different market. Something like F-5 and F-16.

 

[Pointblank]

But I think J-10 and JF-17 might be aiming for different market. Something like F-5 and F-16.

Different time. When the F-5 entered the market, it was designed as a low cost export fighter for those looking into joining the supersonic fighter era. The F-16 was designed as a low end complement to the F-15 and for closely allied air forces.

Today, most nations are looking for higher end combat jets OR armed advanced trainers to fill their needs. Types like the JF-17 occupy a middle position, which results in the JF-17 being stuck in the middle; as the market has become more segregated, most countries will look to either higher end aircraft, or armed advanced trainers for their needs. And with competition from a domestic product (J-10), the J-10 becomes more attractive than the JF-17.

That's pretty irrelevant, most countries will either buy western products or Chinese/Russian products, regardless of what price and how good they are. Romania isn't gonna buy the JF-17 no matter what.

Pretty relevant as it shows that the JF-17 cannot compete on price. It certainly cannot compete in capabilities, so what can it compete on?

 

[dingyibvs]

Pretty relevant as it shows that the JF-17 cannot compete on price. It certainly cannot compete in capabilities, so what can it compete on?

Politics.

 

[Zahid]

We shall see how that plays out. I would bet on JF17 though. F16 available on market would have to be given a Mid Life Upgrade and that would cost a bit. Countries who do not currently use F16 would have to spend money to buy used airframes, spend money on upgrade, and put in place support infrastructure etc. In the end owning used F16 would likely cost much more than JF17.

I would like to question the assertion that extremes of armed trainers and high-end jets would out compete the rest of the fighters. What is the logic behind that and how could this be made to look tenable?

 

[Schumacher]

....
Pretty relevant as it shows that the JF-17 cannot compete on price. It certainly cannot compete in capabilities, so what can it compete on?

Why do you say it can't compete in capabilities ? especially compared to second hand F-16A/Bs.
I believe Pakistani pilots have been giving JF-17s high praises over their old F-16s.

 

[Lion]

Different time. When the F-5 entered the market, it was designed as a low cost export fighter for those looking into joining the supersonic fighter era. The F-16 was designed as a low end complement to the F-15 and for closely allied air forces.

Today, most nations are looking for higher end combat jets OR armed advanced trainers to fill their needs. Types like the JF-17 occupy a middle position, which results in the JF-17 being stuck in the middle; as the market has become more segregated, most countries will look to either higher end aircraft, or armed advanced trainers for their needs. And with competition from a domestic product (J-10), the J-10 becomes more attractive than the JF-17.


Pretty relevant as it shows that the JF-17 cannot compete on price. It certainly cannot compete in capabilities, so what can it compete on?

Typical pointblank post. Just come in with China bashing without sustainable proof. As schumacher point out. Pakistan pilot has make their choices, and they are many post regarding JF-17 KJ-7 radar capabilities post by the radar manufacturer.

JF-17 cannot compete on prices? You mean you try to compare a new plane with an old plane and claim the prices are competitive? lol.. Are you serious?

 

[Lion]

But I think J-10 and JF-17 might be aiming for different market. Something like F-5 and F-16.

F-16 actually is to replace F-5. It is a modern based on of F-5.

J-10 and JF-17 are both single engine, cheaper maintenance.

J-10 maybe a bit more expensive fighter but with greater range,payload and greater agility.

So the buyer needs to see whether it need to pay abit more for greater capabilities.

 

[Pointblank]

Typical pointblank post. Just come in with China bashing without sustainable proof. As schumacher point out. Pakistan pilot has make their choices, and they are many post regarding JF-17 KJ-7 radar capabilities post by the radar manufacturer.

JF-17 cannot compete on prices? You mean you try to compare a new plane with an old plane and claim the prices are competitive? lol.. Are you serious?

I pointed out that the JF-17 also has DOMESTIC competition; since the J-10 is now being offered for export, The J-10 would appeal more to me despite the higher price for the improved capability offered, and because it has more future upgrade-ability potential, unlike the MiG-21 derived JF-17.

I also pointed out that its not only used F-16's that are getting very cheap; slightly used Eurofighters are becoming extremely cheap, and brand new Saab Gripen's are also becoming very cheap. Russian MiG-29's are also very affordable as well. All of this is driven by increased competition on the world fighter market which is driven by an influx of used F-16's entering the market, and lots of existing contenders. The JF-17 is a fairly late entrant into the world arms market for this generation of fighters and usually late entrants don't fare so well unless they offer capabilities that earlier aircraft don't have.