Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Radar


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MwRYum

Captain
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Overall, it's the Japanese playing fire and make China looks bad on the media front, with the goal to whip up domestic opinion to the effort of ditching the "Peace Constitution"...meanwhile most people outside China would ignore the fact that JMSDF ships came that close to PLAN ship, and happened outside Japanese waters.

Back in the Cold War days, you'd see the Soviet ships point their gun barrels to the cameras, that shows how restraint PLAN is...or lame, as the Japanese would now incline to believe.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
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allegations denied by China & Russia, is Abe playing up the tensions for something?

Abe's agenda is to win the election for the upper house, and do away with the so-called "constitution for peace".

since the majority of japanese, more than 80% to be precise, are pro-hardliners as the election for the lower house implied, Abe is going to play the cards of fear and tension at home, an play hardballs with China and Russia, however I doubt he got the guts to start a real conflict.
 

Franklin

Captain
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

China denies putting radar-lock on Japanese warship

China on Friday denied accusations by Japan that a Chinese navy vessel had put a radar-lock on a Japanese warship near a group of disputed islands at the heart of a bitter feud between the two Asian nations.

The Chinese Ministry of National Defense said in a statement, its first official response to the claims, that Japanese officials had given out "false information" and "hyped up" the threat from China.

The Japanese allegations this week have put a fresh strain on relations between Tokyo and Beijing, which remain at loggerheads over who has sovereignty over the remote, rocky islands in the East China Sea.

The tensions have resulted in maritime standoffs and the scrambling of fighter jets in recent months. Japan currently administers the islands, but China has been regularly sending its own vessels on patrols in the surrounding waters.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Wednesday described as "dangerous" and "regrettable" the actions of the Chinese frigate that Tokyo says used radar to gather information on the location of a Japanese destroyer in the East China Sea last week. That type of radar could be used to produce data needed to fire upon the Japanese vessel.

But the Chinese defense ministry said Friday that its navy vessel's radar maintained "normal operations" and that it didn't use the fire-control radar.

It also denied accusations that its navy put a radar-lock on a Japanese helicopter earlier in January, saying that Tokyo's claims didn't match the facts.

"Japan unilaterally released false information to the public without confirming the facts with China," the ministry said.

Tokyo unimpressed

But the Japanese government stuck by its account and expressed dissatisfaction with the Chinese statement on Friday.

"Japan cannot accept the Chinese explanation and urged a sincere response from China on the matter," Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida said.

The United States expressed concern earlier this week about the alleged radar-locking on the Japanese ship.

"Actions such as this escalate tensions and increase the risk of an incident or a miscalculation, and they could undermine peace, stability and economic growth in this vital region," Victoria Nuland, the spokeswoman for the State Department, said Tuesday.

The United States has tried to avoid getting dragged into the island dispute, saying it doesn't take sides on such competing claims of sovereignty. But U.S. officials have admitted that the islands fall under a mutual security treaty between Washington and Tokyo.

The Japanese call the disputed islands Senkaku, and China refers to them as Diaoyu. Near them are important shipping lanes, rich fishing grounds and possible mineral deposits.

Competing claims

Disagreement over who owns the small, uninhabited islands has soured diplomatic and economic relations between Japan and China since September, when Japan announced it had bought several of the islands from private Japanese owners.

China was outraged, as were protesters who marched through several Chinese cities calling for boycotts of Japanese products and asserting Beijing's sovereignty over the islands. Some of the protests turned violent, and damage to Japanese offices and businesses was reported.

In December, the dispute escalated when Japan scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese plane was seen near the islands. Chinese ships have repeatedly entered contested waters despite warnings from the Japanese Coast Guard.

China says its claim extends back hundreds of years. Japan says it saw no trace of Chinese control of the islands in an 1885 survey, so formally recognized them as Japanese sovereign territory in 1895. Japan then sold the islands in 1932 to descendants of the original settlers. The Japanese surrender at the end of World War II in 1945 only served to cloud the issue further.

The islands were administered by the U.S. occupation force after the war. But in 1972, Washington returned them to Japan as part of its withdrawal from Okinawa.

Tensions with Russia

Japan was given an abrupt reminder of a separate territorial dispute on Wednesday when its defense ministry said two Russian fighter jets entered Japanese airspace near the tip of the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido.

The Russian jets left Japanese airspace without incident after a little more than a minute, the ministry said.

The incident occurred near a set of islands disputed by Tokyo and Moscow since the end of World War II.

Russian officials denied their jets entered Japanese airspace, the Russian news agency Interfax reported.
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

I just deleted 14 post. Stop the unnecessary arguments and the political nonsense.

bd popeye super moderator
 

t_co

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Just wondering: how normal is it to paint a target with FC radar? How many times did it occur during the Cold War, for example?
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

I just want to comment that ever since WWII and especially after the collaspe of USSR, people had been opitimisitic about the prevention of large scale conflict by human rationality. That seem to me a huge misinterptation. What really took place is that the world had been stuck in a one-pole power structure for so long that it forgot what a real war taste like. The conflict of interest and the resentment between people of different states and differet classes had not decreased, nor had human rationality been imporved. What we see in the heating up of Diaoyu and SCS are but a prologue to much larger and intense conflicts as the world strays further from the order that was established for it after WWII.

China had been acquiring a mordernized navy and intended to use it to defend its "oversea national interest". The next natural step would be getting out of first island chain, establishing oversea naval bases and began its "power projection". What this signals is that China is developing itself into a neo-colonial power. I cannot help but to wonder how could that ever sit well with the current neo-colonial powers a.k.a. the western alliance.

The truth was that China and Chinese had never accepted the place the western world had once assgined to them. They kept quiet when they needed to but it was a state of silent resentment. What happened In SCS and Diaoyu was that those resentments had found powerful outlets. As China gains confidence and assertiveness, there would be continuing friction between China and those she considers to be "western puppets" until she felt confident enough to go for the "puppetmaster".

I'm not war-mongering in any sense. This is comment geared towards those who thinks that a new Sino-Japan war is unrealistic. They have that impression only because the word "war" had enstranged itself to them. It's been so long since we had real wars but that's not at all a good reason to doubt they would happen again. Remeber what they had called the First World War? They called it "the war to end all wars"
 

paintgun

Senior Member
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

Resentment and public animosity is one of many aspects of consideration is diplomacy.
The fact is China has grown strong enough to begin challenging the status quo in areas of her immediate interest, which is a natural progression of a growing power. Resentment and emotional aspects can be a driving element, but not the ultimate reason behind the dynamic.

The part that i would fully agree to is that China is really pushing Senkaku/Diaoyu agenda ahead. A snippet of news mentioned that Xi formed a special committee for Diaoyu and to take the matter as top of national security issue like Taiwan.(you guys in mainland perhaps can shed more light on this)

With that i think Xi's recipe for breaking through the first island chain is through this Diaoyu issue.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

I just want to comment that ever since WWII and especially after the collaspe of USSR, people had been opitimisitic about the prevention of large scale conflict by human rationality. That seem to me a huge misinterptation. What really took place is that the world had been stuck in a one-pole power structure for so long that it forgot what a real war taste like. The conflict of interest and the resentment between people of different states and differet classes had not decreased, nor had human rationality been imporved. What we see in the heating up of Diaoyu and SCS are but a prologue to much larger and intense conflicts as the world strays further from the order that was established for it after WWII.

China had been acquiring a mordernized navy and intended to use it to defend its "oversea national interest". The next natural step would be getting out of first island chain, establishing oversea naval bases and began its "power projection". What this signals is that China is developing itself into a neo-colonial power. I cannot help but to wonder how could that ever sit well with the current neo-colonial powers a.k.a. the western alliance.

The truth was that China and Chinese had never accepted the place the western world had once assgined to them. They kept quiet when they needed to but it was a state of silent resentment. What happened In SCS and Diaoyu was that those resentments had found powerful outlets. As China gains confidence and assertiveness, there would be continuing friction between China and those she considers to be "western puppets" until she felt confident enough to go for the "puppetmaster".

I'm not war-mongering in any sense. This is comment geared towards those who thinks that a new Sino-Japan war is unrealistic. They have that impression only because the word "war" had enstranged itself to them. It's been so long since we had real wars but that's not at all a good reason to doubt they would happen again. Remeber what they had called the First World War? They called it "the war to end all wars"
A well thought out piece, but one which is fundamentally flawed by the common, but ultimately baseless and wrong assumption that China will act and behave in the worst way the west had done in the past if given the slightest chance.

The charge that China is developing into a neo-colonial power is completely without foundation. Having been a victim of the worst excess of colonialism, China is far more conscious and sensitive to how a weaker nation might perceive being pressured by a stronger one. That is where China's much criticised non-interference policy comes from and what it is supposed to guard against.

It often amuses me just how out of tough China's critics usually are with reality that they have the nerve to bash China for its non-interference policy as if it was designed to spite and undermine western efforts to 'civilise' the Africans, yet accuse China of engaging in Colonialism a moment later for trading with African countries. :rolleyes:

You do make a good point that China is unhappy with its position, and even with the world order the west has constructed, and is starting to push back to improve its positions and maybe even change the rules of the game.

However, your assertion that China will ultimately go after the 'puppet masters', is unfounded and unreasonable.

China wants a better deal, and a fairer system, but it does not want to obliterate the west. So long as the west is able to be flexible and reasonable and accept that the world has changed and adjust to the new reality of world power, China would be more than happy to never fight anyone.

China is investing in a strong military because it remembers well that it was the lack of the ability to defend itself against foreign aggression that brought it low before, and I think your average Chinese take national security as seriously as your average Israeli, in that very few people would object to healthy defence spending to build a top military for China even at the expense of higher taxes and/or forgoing worthy social security perks.

America's clumsy sabre rattling and military misadventures in the past and present is only reinforcing the perception that strong military power is the only guarantee of one's safety and prosperity.

China's military power is overwhelmingly for defence, and it is only big by necessity since the enemy it feels it needs to be able to guard against happens to spend more on arms than the next ten biggest spenders on the planet combined, or something to that effect.

China is building a strong navy as a first line of defence, so that if hostilities break out, it will be fought out in the ocean rather than over China's economic, manufacturing and population centres on its East Coast. The secondary mission of the navy is to protect China's now global supply lines. China is no longer self sufficient in energy and raw materials, and so it needs to guard against its sea based supply lines being cut. Up to now, it has guarded against that by inter-linking its economic fortunes with that of the rest of the world's and with America's in particular, so that if anyone tries to cut China's sea based supply lines, they would hurt the world economy and America as much as it hurt China. However, America will only go so far in the name of money, and it was always a gamble to bet that American greed will outweigh any and all reasoning for America to want to cut China's supply lines. As such, it is only natural that China would wish to takes its security and destiny in its own hands as soon as possible.

Only with the third mission for the PLAN of helping to safeguard Chinese citizens and national interests abroad would any sort of power projection be on the horizon. But the only likely scenarios involve evacuation of Chinese nationals, and the PLA would only actively engage in combat without a UN mandate if some leader was stupid enough to order the targeting and mass killing of Chinese nationals by their military.

If we rule out such an extreme scenario, China's LPDs and future LHDs would only realistic see action in evacuation or humanitarian assistance missions.

War is far from inevitable or even likely, and the ball is in the west's court when it comes to how China will view and treat them. The on,y sure fire way to make war more likely and China and enemy is to treat China as an enemy.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

I just want to comment that ever since WWII and especially after the collaspe of USSR, people had been opitimisitic about the prevention of large scale conflict by human rationality. That seem to me a huge misinterptation. What really took place is that the world had been stuck in a one-pole power structure for so long that it forgot what a real war taste like. The conflict of interest and the resentment between people of different states and differet classes had not decreased, nor had human rationality been imporved. What we see in the heating up of Diaoyu and SCS are but a prologue to much larger and intense conflicts as the world strays further from the order that was established for it after WWII.

China had been acquiring a mordernized navy and intended to use it to defend its "oversea national interest". The next natural step would be getting out of first island chain, establishing oversea naval bases and began its "power projection". What this signals is that China is developing itself into a neo-colonial power. I cannot help but to wonder how could that ever sit well with the current neo-colonial powers a.k.a. the western alliance.

The truth was that China and Chinese had never accepted the place the western world had once assgined to them. They kept quiet when they needed to but it was a state of silent resentment. What happened In SCS and Diaoyu was that those resentments had found powerful outlets. As China gains confidence and assertiveness, there would be continuing friction between China and those she considers to be "western puppets" until she felt confident enough to go for the "puppetmaster".

I'm not war-mongering in any sense. This is comment geared towards those who thinks that a new Sino-Japan war is unrealistic. They have that impression only because the word "war" had enstranged itself to them. It's been so long since we had real wars but that's not at all a good reason to doubt they would happen again. Remeber what they had called the First World War? They called it "the war to end all wars"
The most dangerous element of the China/Japan issue is there are no 'proxy' wars that can be fought between them. I truly believe that part of the reason why US vs USSR never came to a full time show down was because of the small 'proxy' wars that are fought all over the world. From Korea to Vietnam to Afghanistan these proxy wars somehow 'ease' the powerkeg and lessen the strain between the 2 countries and reduced the chances of a full blown nuclear exchange.

In the case of China and Japan these proxy wars are practically non existent.
 
Re: Japanese Defence Minister: Helicopter & DDG "locked on" by Chinese Frigates' Ra

The most dangerous element of the China/Japan issue is there are no 'proxy' wars that can be fought between them. I truly believe that part of the reason why US vs USSR never came to a full time show down was because of the small 'proxy' wars that are fought all over the world. From Korea to Vietnam to Afghanistan these proxy wars somehow 'ease' the powerkeg and lessen the strain between the 2 countries and reduced the chances of a full blown nuclear exchange.

In the case of China and Japan these proxy wars are practically non existent.
The issues between China and Japan are not about ideology and world domination as they were between the US and the USSR. China and Japan's issues are about territory and historical grievances. Proxy wars don't apply.
 
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