J-20 5th Generation Fighter VII

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Temstar

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But they're not used by the PLAAF which limits it's ceiling
There's some truth to this. There's a certain prestige that comes with your country using the same equipment as the Big Five. Even if in reality you're getting monkey models with lots of letters appended to the end of the designation. China use to not understand this hence why they name export stuff very differently from the domestic stuff (eg: VT-4 vs Type-99, VT-5 vs Type-15). Even though in some cases the Chinese export model were even better than the PLA counterpart. But Chinese MIC have realised this in recent years and that's why you now start to see things like Type 054A/P, Type 071E.

With aircraft export specifically China does not want to upset Russia and be seen as trying to steal their market, thus there's a deliberate effort to avoid selling anything Su-27 derived on international market, so that rules out J-11, J-15 and J-16. That leaves us with J-10CE, but that one is a tough sell since there are lots of options on the market for this role (F-16V, those three from Europe)
 
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KampfAlwin

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There's some truth to this. There's a certain prestige that comes with your country using the same equipment as the Big Five. Even if in reality you're getting monkey models with lots of letters appended to the end of the designation. China use to not understand this hence why they name export stuff very differently from the domestic stuff (eg: VT-4 vs Type-99, VT-5 vs Type-15). Even though in some cases the Chinese export model were even better than the PLA counterpart. But Chinese MIC have realised this in recent years and that's why you now start to see things like Type 054A/P, Type 071E.

With aircraft export specifically China does not want to upset Russia and be seen as trying to steal their market, thus there's a deliberate effort to avoid selling anything Su-27 derived on international market, so that rules out J-11, J-15 and J-16. That leaves us with J-10CE, but that one is a tough sell since there are lots of options on the market for this role (F-16V, those three from Europe)
Yeah, F-16s are conquering the 4th gen market. Although, there‘s a possibility that China could snatch up a sizable portion of the 5th gen market, assuming they are willing to export a J-31 derivative since the market for 5th gen is still nascent.
 

davidau

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Basically yes. Just look at what happened with Rafale sales.
Not that this matters. China is not offering the J-20 for export any time soon. Probably never.
No. unlike Rafale, J -20 can use AI and computer simulated war situations without having to go to war, yet! Again, J -20 is a trump card and China will never export its top notch fighters to anyone, and for any money.
 

Blitzo

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Okay there are some bad takes here which I need to correct.

Basically yes. Just look at what happened with Rafale sales.
Not that this matters. China is not offering the J-20 for export any time soon. Probably never.

The export success of Rafale was marginally related to its use in conflict (namely Libya), however more importantly, as a program and aircraft it was also successful and offered certain capabilities (like an AESA) that other competing eurocanards didn't at the time.

Combined with France having less political strings than the US and Europe do with their weapons offerings, is it really a surprise that the Rafale eventually saw export success, regardless of whether it bombed Libya or not?

No. unlike Rafale, J -20 can use AI and computer simulated war situations without having to go to war, yet! Again, J -20 is a trump card and China will never export its top notch fighters to anyone, and for any money.

This is confusing and a bad take.

There is nothing about AI, J-20, or Rafale which would prevent AI from simulating how Rafale might perform in XYZ scenario.
Similarly there's nothing about J-20 inherently that would enable it to be simulated more easily than Rafale.

More importantly, as other people have written, flying a few bombing missions over a nation with minimal obsolete air defenses with massive force multiplier support, is a very poor way of trying to demonstrate serious combat capability to customers who are knowledgeable.
Performance in large scale high intensity air exercises is arguably far more useful.

====

.... Now it is 100% correct to say that J-20 will not be offered for export for a long time -- perhaps never. Everyone here should agree with that.

But other such takes written above are too simplistic and logically flawed.




====

I would also challenge everyone here as to why they care about export customers for Chinese fighter aircraft.
China is not Russia -- its own domestic aerospace industry does not rely on external customers for domestic industry advancement let alone survival, and certainly do not push high end air and naval capabilities for export in the way Russia has done.
Furthermore, China is not the US -- it doesn't have an expansive alliance system (by design) which it can push large numbers and types of its own domestic fighters to for profit and for geopolitical alignment.

The only reason to be interested in Chinese export sales for its fighter aircraft is for the sake of novelty and reviewing what domestic capabilities can be inferred from what they offer for export.
 

Maula Jatt

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.... Now it is 100% correct to say that J-20 will not be offered for export for a long time -- perhaps never. Everyone here should agree with that.

But other such takes written above are too simplistic and logically flawed.




====

I would also challenge everyone here as to why they care about export customers for Chinese fighter aircraft.
China is not Russia -- its own domestic aerospace industry does not rely on external customers for domestic industry advancement let alone survival, and certainly do not push high end air and naval capabilities for export in the way Russia has done.
Furthermore, China is not the US -- it doesn't have an expansive alliance system (by design) which it can push large numbers and types of its own domestic fighters to for profit and for geopolitical alignment.
Why is it "by design" shouldn't China learn from the US since as every major power in modern history had alliance networks?

What exactly is China planning to do differently
 

Blitzo

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Why is it "by design" shouldn't China learn from the US since as every major power in modern history had alliance networks?

What exactly is China planning to do differently

Because right now, and in the foreseeable future, China doesn't plan to have a US style alliance system.

Whether this changes in multiple decades or not is another matter, but this is the situation right now and soon which is why talk about export fighters from China is superfluous for now.

This will be my last post on the topic in this thread.
If you or anyone else wish to continue this tangent, please continue it in a different thread.


Edit:

Specifically, @Bigboii ,
This post of yours before was what started this discussion about export aircraft.


You are a new member here so some latitude is offered, but please don't enter into "flagship" military threads and write posts that are tangential or unrelated to the topic at hand.
There is no need to reply to this post.
 
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Blitzo

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gotta love when mods aid and abet the off topic BS :rolleyes:

Because when bad takes are written in off topic posts, correcting bad takes for the purpose of education to end an off topic tangent is desirable so that those same positions do not happen again.

In my post immediately before yours before, I had already written that if they wished to make further posts on the tangent it should go into a different thread. So yes, you writing a further post afterwards complaining of off topic posts is superfluous after that.
Don't take it personally.
 

Deino

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According to this CCTV-7 report, the Chinese media officially announced that the first J-20 brigade assigned to the Northern Theater Command - indirectly confirming as such the 1st Air Brig. at Anshan - as the first combat unit to be equipped with J-20A powered by WS-10C engines.

(Images via CCTV 7)

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