J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

MeiouHades

Junior Member
Registered Member
Civilian tech leads military tech by a wide margin because military tech favors reliability and known performance over raw capabilities. Su-7 may work fine as a civilian product. But how does it function after getting hit by shrapnel. Are the electronics vulnerable to microwave and possibly atomic radiation? How redundant are the subsystems?
You misunderstand; and admittedly I should've clarified more, but I'm speaking more toward the general quality of software engineering and production we see from China that does impact military aviation because the talent pool is the same and the institutions that produce that talent are the same (a lot of commercial software devs often pivot to military/defense software development after obtaining the necessary security clearance). China right now perhaps has some of the most talented programmers anywhere on the planet. I'm a competitive programmer too so I'd know this, Chinese programmers are a whole different breed. This is important, because your software and sensor fusion are only as good as your best programmers which, in China's case, are absurdly good.
 

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
You misunderstand; and admittedly I should've clarified more, but I'm speaking more toward the general quality of software engineering and production we see from China that does impact military aviation because the talent pool is the same and the institutions that produce that talent are the same (a lot of commercial software devs often pivot to military/defense software development after obtaining the necessary security clearance). China right now perhaps has some of the most talented programmers anywhere on the planet. I'm a competitive programmer too so I'd know this, Chinese programmers are a whole different breed. This is important, because your software and sensor fusion are only as good as your best programmers which, in China's case, are absurdly good.
That’s true, but crème of the crop will not go to state owned/MIC companies, which is true everywhere.
 

MeiouHades

Junior Member
Registered Member
That’s true, but crème of the crop will not go to state owned/MIC companies, which is true everywhere.
Yeah, even here, no top tier engineer is quitting FAANG of Quant Finance to work at Lockheed Martin. Still, the improvements happen across the board. If your top tier programmers are in a class of their own then it's not unreasonable to say that even the "average" programmers produced by the same institutions will be a cut above the rest.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
That’s true, but crème of the crop will not go to state owned/MIC companies, which is true everywhere.

Yeah, even here, no top tier engineer is quitting FAANG of Quant Finance to work at Lockheed Martin. Still, the improvements happen across the board. If your top tier programmers are in a class of their own then it's not unreasonable to say that even the "average" programmers produced by the same institutions will be a cut above the rest.

Not *entirely* true in China’s case. China’s SOE MIC offer job security relative to the private sector, and for people who care more about working on interesting projects there’s often better prospects for that with the MICs as well. Lots of engineers also get their start on MIC related projects even before they graduate.

American MICs used to be a top recruiter of STEM talent in the US too. That only ended because state funding dried up to enable more aggressive hiring.
 

MeiouHades

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not *entirely* true in China’s case. China’s SOE MIC offer job security relative to the private sector, and for people who care more about working on interesting projects there’s often better prospects for that with the MICs as well. Lots of engineers also get their start on MIC related projects even before they graduate.

American MICs used to be a top recruiter of STEM talent in the US too. That only ended because state funding dried up to enable more aggressive hiring.
True, my grandfather was one of the people involved in working on the F-14's mission computer. US MICs used to be a vacuum for top engineering talent. Not to throw shade but the fact that they stopped being that definitely plays into why we're starting to see the US MIC starting to make a lot of bad decisions, and why, inversely, China's MIC is practically booming
 

iewgnem

Captain
Registered Member
That is not a fun fact because they are incomparable products.

Same goes for comparing the technology on a car with a fighter jet from MeiouHades. Utterly nonsensical.
Actually with SLAM, vision based path planning, moving target tracking & following while avoiding environmental obstacle and maintaining track through occlusion, a DJI Mini's sensor fusion capabilities are arguably a lot more advanced than F-35's EODAS which only does hotspot and moving target identification.

To put it another way, other than switching out optical for IR sensors, and mil-spec hardening, in term of sensor fusion a DJI mini can do everything a F-35 can do, while F-35 could only do a small subset of what DJI Mini can do.

Infact higher end DJI drones with air traffic sense and avoid requirements do exactly what F-35 do: detect and track other no-cooperative aircraft and drones via EODAS.

Let's not forget F-35 was designed in the early 2000s, it's literally been a quarter century since then.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Actually with SLAM, vision based path planning, moving target tracking & following while avoiding environmental obstacle and maintaining track through occlusion, a DJI Mini's sensor fusion capabilities are arguably a lot more advanced than F-35's EODAS which only does hotspot and moving target identification.

To put it another way, other than switching out optical for IR sensors, and mil-spec hardening, in term of sensor fusion a DJI mini can do everything a F-35 can do, while F-35 could only do a small subset of what DJI Mini can do.

Infact higher end DJI drones with air traffic sense and avoid requirements do exactly what F-35 do: detect and track other no-cooperative aircraft and drones via EODAS.

Let's not forget F-35 was designed in the early 2000s, it's literally been a quarter century since then.

Except for the difference of course that the speeds, distances and altitudes of the respective platform and targets that each is oriented towards.

The problem I have with your suggestion is it implies that the same technologies on a consumer quadcopter drone (as advanced as they are) could offer a major capability uplift if they were transplanted to a military fighter jet.
 
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