J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
AL-31FN is the prime suspect in this incident.
J-10s suffered several in-flight shutdowns due to engine lubrication system malfunction,since there's a design flaw with its oil unit:mad:

[qimg]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1004/27_77564_7803cd7ab3433cd.jpg[/qimg]

Is there a patch option available for the faulty lubrication system or are the Chinese/Russian engineers working on one?
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
AL-31FN is still the prime suspect in this incident.
J-10s suffered several in-flight shutdowns due to engine lubrication system malfunction,since there's a design flaw with its oil unit:mad:

Got no one else to blame but itself when China overly depending on the Russian engine.
 

Troika

Junior Member
under 'no engine' condition, it will push much harder for internal development.
either suffering or full glory..

Sheer wishful thinking.

And while crossing fingers hoping for best, is certainty that in the mean time leave China without experience of operation, system integration, doctrine, manufacture...
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
Sheer wishful thinking.

And while crossing fingers hoping for best, is certainty that in the mean time leave China without experience of operation, system integration, doctrine, manufacture...

If I had the choice, I will go for the "suffering" route...
 

vesicles

Colonel
If I had the choice, I will go for the "suffering" route...

I would go with the combination of the two. Learning the advanced technologies first, then develop my own. This would ensure the "suffering" would be as short as possible and the newly developed domestic tech can be as good as possible since it would have the best of both worlds. Without understanding others' tech, China will have to go through the same process as those developed nations had in the past when they first developed this techs, which means decades of hard working. While China is independently spending decades on some tech that many West nations already has now, these nations will be spending the same time developing even newer tech. There is no reason to believe that Chinese are extra smarter than others. In other words, China would be moving at the same pace as everyone else. By the time China finally develops the third/forth generation fighter, the US will be on its 6th/7th gen fighters. Imagine if you fall behind someone else and still move at the same pace as the people in front, when will you be able to catch up? Well, NEVER! So in that sense, China is doing the correct thing.

Confucius said one always has something to learn from others. In China's case, adopting foreign tech is a process of learning and ensures the "suffering" can end as fast as possible...
 
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Troika

Junior Member
If I had the choice, I will go for the "suffering" route...

Designing complex equipment is not building road, you can't halve the time by throwing men and money at it.

It works if you have under-capacity, that is project undermanned underfunded equipment outdated etc:

However, if not:

1) There may simply not be enough trained and capable people to do the job. China currently has WS-9, WS-10 (and variants), WS-13, WS-15, and half a dozen smaller projects.
2) Project management framework may not exist (i.e. can run 100-designer project well, but cannot scale).
3) Related to above, after a point adding MORE designers just produces paralysis. Imagine 4 teams of engineers working on same fan blades... exactly.
4) After a point you may simply have to opt for parellel projects - that was often done historically, Soviet Union had for example in 1949 two teams working in parallel on rockets, one of Germans one of Russians (Russian team made better design by the way). This is good insurance, but fantastically expensive.
5) Drastically increasing funding may be counterproductiv. If for example buy in bulk much state-of-art equipment instead of buying bit by bit incrementally, produces paralysis because now need to trained new people to operate equipment, relearn usage and integrate equipment within existing system. Bugs may take months if not years.
6) Funds may be mis-spent. Few project managers ever refuse extra funding. Then becomes exercise in self-justification of funding - buying marginally useful equipment, giving selves raises, new offices etc.

These and many other reasons are why one cannot simply plough money into projects and expect proportionate returns.

Likely analysis was something like this:
1) PLAAF looks at threat, give report of what is probably needed
2) They check how much funds are available, remember if you axe 1.5 billion engine deal is no assurance all money goes into R&D. May go to bombers, may go to Rocket Forces, may go to Chengdu hiring assassins to kill you for delaying and probably killing J-10 project for years.
3) Decide what to do with this money - buy all Russian aerialengines? Can Russia even deliver so many within timeframe you worked out? Go to all domestic? Can the design bureaus absorb so much cash? There will be NO engines.
4) Because design bureau is of such size, to fully fund it and give reasonable incremental upgrades would cost so much, Russians can build so many engines, Chengdu can build so many airframes, how many regiments in PLAAF needs replacements, how urgent it is to develop doctrine... you come up with balance.

I hope that helps explain my comment.
 

xyin

Just Hatched
Registered Member
There was a new J-10 crashed last week.
Does anyone here accounts how many J-10s have been crashed already?

Regards
 
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