Infantry Combat Equipment (non-firearm): Vests, Body Armor, NVGs, etc.


Aniah

Junior Member
Registered Member
Suppression fire should mainly come from SAW and GMPG.
"Sometimes you will be in angles where a machine gunner won't be able to hit especially if you are charging or moving forward."

Sometimes it's simply not available. Running and gunning were never meant to be accurate just helpful when the needs arise.
 

gongolongo

New Member
Registered Member
Do you have a better way of teaching muscle memory?
That crouching pose is like some weird anime pose and has no bearing in actual practice. Doing a barrel roll is comedic. The bayonet is also very odd, some of them are on the back foot.


Everything else is fine.


My point is Chinese exercises seem to be too focused on these drills just to look cool but maybe that's what you need to get more recruits.
 

Norinco_81

New Member
Registered Member
These drills have 0 practical use. I don't know why China keeps doing these kinds of training.
Others have already mentioned it but as a veteran I'll include my thoughts as well. Every military in the world makes you do stupid, sometimes impractical drills or tasks to either instill discipline, instant obedience to orders, or even attention to detail. Troops themselves know the tasks are bullshit but it is a part of any military force, and its not like you can just tell your superiors that you wont do it because you think its stupid.

However, a form of the "combat roll" the forward shoulder roll, is taught in MCMAP, which is the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. It combines many disciplines from around the world including Judo which is where the forward shoulder roll comes from. It is taught without combat gear and a rifle on to teach people how to minimize injuries if they trip and fall forward. It is very possible to trip on rocky, uneven terrain, it actually happened to me once but when I was out shooting my own guns, not in the military. I somehow accidentally tripped and somehow performed a perfect roll and completed my shooting drill without hurting myself lol.

Well from their location, I'm not sure there's a lot of trouble to get into.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the drill was just adapting certain things for TV.

What I do find questionable is the dropping to prone with the pack on. That is really bad for your back, and not the standard practice which is why there are usually quick release straps. That being said, my guess they are just filled with a little bit of clothes to puff it up.

Wearing 50 - 100+lbs of gear is bad for your back regardless, which is why so many veterans especially infantry claim and receive disability benefits after they get out.
A military rucksack is not filled with "a little bit of clothes". It should be filled with whatever is on the unit packing list. Extra uniform sets, underwear, socks, cold and wet weather clothing (if applicable), rations, water, ammo, and other mission essential gear. All that stuff can weigh anywhere from 50-100lbs and of course is not fun to hump around with.
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Wearing 50 - 100+lbs of gear is bad for your back regardless, which is why so many veterans especially infantry claim and receive disability benefits after they get out.
A military rucksack is not filled with "a little bit of clothes". It should be filled with whatever is on the unit packing list. Extra uniform sets, underwear, socks, cold and wet weather clothing (if applicable), rations, water, ammo, and other mission essential gear. All that stuff can weigh anywhere from 50-100lbs and of course is not fun to hump around with.
Yes, I believe the number 1 source of health claims for vets is something back issues, followed by knee issues.

Thats only a vague recollection of a lecture, but I’m pretty sure I’m recalling it correctly.

What I was referring to with the little bit of clothes idea was that this was for a media segment. I’m doubtful it’s too heavy because you risk ending up like an upside down turtle if rolling like that with a full gear load out.
 

MwRYum

Major
So in the case of the Chinese troops doing prone manuevers with rucks on, I would guess that they are practicing for a scenario in which there is no cover. Yes, it's bad for their back, but they have to prepare for the worst scenario. That is just part of their job. As for the barrel roll, I question its usefulness. Its great as an exercise for keeping the body nimble. Otherwise, all it does is hinder your ability to return fire.
The terrain they operate in offers little to no useful cover, unless you're on the high ground.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
According to this US veteran(link to response:
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), aside from the usual nationalistic jargon usually spewed by soldiers of all nations, he mentioned this at the end of his response: "We immediately return fire, locate the threat [then] [manuever] to cover. Once there we drop the rucks so we can be much more mobile and faster. Sometimes we use the ruck as a supported firing position. You name it. But that Ruck is your lifeline".

So, no, they don't dump their ruck immediately and then run for cover. In fact, they keep it with them until they get cover. So in the case of the Chinese troops doing prone manuevers with rucks on, I would guess that they are practicing for a scenario in which there is no cover. Yes, it's bad for their back, but they have to prepare for the worst scenario. That is just part of their job. As for the barrel roll, I question its usefulness. Its great as an exercise for keeping the body nimble. Otherwise, all it does is hinder your ability to return fire.
Good that NATO troops are not pickup up stupid habits fighting jihadis then, but that underlines that the drills the PLA troopers were practicing are of practical utility because if your unit is ambushed, knowing how to get down quickly with heavy packs without doing yourself an injury is important.
 

subotai1

Junior Member
Registered Member
According to this US veteran(link to response:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
), aside from the usual nationalistic jargon usually spewed by soldiers of all nations, he mentioned this at the end of his response: "We immediately return fire, locate the threat [then] [manuever] to cover. Once there we drop the rucks so we can be much more mobile and faster. Sometimes we use the ruck as a supported firing position. You name it. But that Ruck is your lifeline".
Let me add more context to this. The larger and longer the conflict, the more you need that ruck. Units will be separated. Supply lines will get disrupted and bases will be destroyed. What you carry on your back and hands is the only thing you can guarantee that you will have. So, you practice that reality in all possible situations and when to dump it and when to keep it. And you always prepare for being surprised. When you are surprised, you move with what you have on you.

One more thing. Someone else mentioned that you don't run and shoot. Absolutely you do. Unless you are in an enforced, extremely well designed position or think you have not been exposed during an assault, you move and move fast and you shoot to suppress (at a minimum) while doing so. If you don't, you're dead. Speed kills in combat. Its trivial these days to dial in your position and have things coming your way, so you better get moving. Drop your rucks in a secure location (or make one) and move your ass.
 

Tiberium

New Member
Registered Member
The barrel roll thing is just to show on TV when perform it on a level ground. In reality, when you are running in your highest speed from one cover to another(or trench, shell crater, etc), this is the fastest way to rush into the cover and do a barrel roll and resume shooting position. Other would be much slower.
 

Maxef208

New Member
Registered Member
For those defending the roll. Have you done a forward roll in your life? or done this roll in equipment yourself? Hell just put a backpack on with about 20-30 pounds of stuff and tell me if you want to roll around in it. Coming out of a roll is always disorienting
Let me add more context to this. The larger and longer the conflict, the more you need that ruck. Units will be separated. Supply lines will get disrupted and bases will be destroyed. What you carry on your back and hands is the only thing you can guarantee that you will have. So, you practice that reality in all possible situations and when to dump it and when to keep it. And you always prepare for being surprised. When you are surprised, you move with what you have on you.

One more thing. Someone else mentioned that you don't run and shoot. Absolutely you do. Unless you are in an enforced, extremely well designed position or think you have not been exposed during an assault, you move and move fast and you shoot to suppress (at a minimum) while doing so. If you don't, you're dead. Speed kills in combat. Its trivial these days to dial in your position and have things coming your way, so you better get moving. Drop your rucks in a secure location (or make one) and move your ass.
Arms and armor race coming to a part of the cycle again where mobility is more important than protection. I'm starting to wonder when body armor becomes irrelevant once more, as the reason for it's widespread adoption again was due to most threats being small arms and fragments from enemies who's most heavy weapon will likely be an HMG or RPG here and there, but with a near peer opponent with more access to vehicles and the big weapons and that armor won't protect you from being liquified by HE.
 

Aniah

Junior Member
Registered Member
For those defending the roll. Have you done a forward roll in your life? or done this roll in equipment yourself? Hell just put a backpack on with about 20-30 pounds of stuff and tell me if you want to roll around in it. Coming out of a roll is always disorienting

Arms and armor race coming to a part of the cycle again where mobility is more important than protection. I'm starting to wonder when body armor becomes irrelevant once more, as the reason for it's widespread adoption again was due to most threats being small arms and fragments from enemies who's most heavy weapon will likely be an HMG or RPG here and there, but with a near peer opponent with more access to vehicles and the big weapons and that armor won't protect you from being liquified by HE.
The roll is most likely just practice to get the soldiers used to different movements in the body. You are correct in that it probably will never get used and they would most likely roll to the sides than anything else. The PLA has always been very "light" and focused on mobility if you've seen their training obstacles. The training which we outsiders question does not always show why they do it but they do it for a reason.
 

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