Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
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Hi,
probably for firing R37M they need to upgrade radar and electronic system on their MKIs, which will
take another 4/5 odd years of not delayed, my understanding is one way or the other Russia might
push them to buy Su35 for R37 M, if not they will be charged exuberantly to upgrade MKIs if they want
long range radar from the present Russian arsenal, rest assured even after that if those MKIs are not up
to the task I don’t know who will be the scapegoat in that scenario.
thank you
Wait, A few days ago they were saying they gonna deliver 6 mk1 LCA's to airforce by may 2026, those were with the integration of the new radars/ew stuff they are picking??? They gonna place order, get delivery, get them installed, tested and evaluated within 1 year..?
Does India have meteors tho? I know they should have them logically But when I looked up a month or so ago i couldnt find any reliable source and forgot about it.
Plus there was that news about france's backlog of meteor shipments and even Uk having integration issues on f35' still 2030's...
When the rafales bought by india were undergoing final testing in france, there was a news picture of a meteor fitted on a pylon. So india logically should have bought some meteors, but I've heard that they only bought them in tiny quantities like only 40. That's not even enough for pilots to at least try it out in live fire exercises, let alone participate in real battle.
Maybe they thought they wouldnt need them?? Or their own Astra's will be ready and use those?? Thats why they have been asking French for the 'source code' to integrate non-nato systems.
Yeah 40 is nothing
Logically, they should have a lot more Meteors than that, but it's not too uncommon for militaries to have far more shallow munitions magazines than you'd think they'd have. For example, Taiwan's main fighter is the F-16, of which they have over 100. The best missile for this plane is the AIM-120, so how many do you think that they would have? The answer is 200. And that's the country that needs long range AAM missiles more badly than just about anyone else in the world. (By the way, Taiwan has around 1000 MICA missiles for its 50 Mirage 2000s! Taiwan is not known for making good arms decisions.)
As for the May 7 battle, I'm certain that India's Rafales were armed with them. Yes, the wreckage evidence only found MICAs, but the PAF claimed that they only targetted fighters that had launch attacks into Pakistan. On that day, Rafales should have been flying two mission: strike missions with SCALPs and Hammers, and CAP; and it's these CAP fighters that would have been armed with Meteors. The latter were never shot at so none of them should have been shot down.
And this brings up the question of why no Meteors were ever fired. The definitive answer to this isn't going to be revealed any time soon, but I think it isn't too hard to conjecture about. The simple explanation is that the Indian fighters simply never detected the Pakistan fighters. Once their own planes started getting knocked down, all the IAF fighters ran for home before trying to find their enemies.
Second rate, previous generation, export grade electronic warfare equipment China sold to Pakistan is enough to clown Indian airforce and make them blind.
India does not have a genuine commercial electronics industry that can make a thermostat without foreign parts but talks like it invents entire ecosystems of bleeding edge electronics and computing equipment like China actually does. Now the copium of "they steal/copy etc and all Chinese equipment is axiomatically junk". Ignoring that China manufacturers plenty of the best stuff out there today. Maybe poor Indians can only afford $.1 products though so their whole "chinki maal" soundbytes come from some place. Just that some place is poverty stricken India.
India does not have a genuine commercial electronics industry that can make a thermostat without foreign parts but talks like it invents entire ecosystems of bleeding edge electronics and computing equipment like China actually does. Now the copium of "they steal/copy etc and all Chinese equipment is axiomatically junk". Ignoring that China manufacturers plenty of the best stuff out there today. Maybe poor Indians can only afford $.1 products though so their whole "chinki maal" soundbytes come from some place. Just that some place is poverty stricken India.
A widely circulated assumption in defense discourse is that the military equipment China exports to Pakistan with downgraded, outdated military systems. In reality, many platforms are custom-built to meet Pakistan’s specific operational needs.
Like PL-15E achieve kills at nearly 190 km, well beyond its quoted 140 km range, indicating either enhanced variants or optimized deployment.
The Type 054A/P frigates are another strong example. While they lack a Towed Array Sonar (TAS), they come equipped with the SR2410C AESA radar, a generation ahead of the Type 382 radar on China’s own 054A frigates. They also carry CM-302 significantly superior to the YJ-83 used by 054As.
These examples clearly show that Pakistan isn't receiving hand-me-downs, but mission-optimized systems. The China-Pakistan defense partnership has evolved beyond a transactional model into a strategic, capability-driven collaboration.
I guess my post referred specifically to electronic warfare.
In response to your post, I must agree with the speculation that many military exports to Pakistan are indeed quite thought out as to diverge enough from the Chinese equivalent in PLA service. However you should also remember that when China exported the PL-15E to Pakistan, China itself already had the PL-16 and PL-21. Their next generation missiles are already being readied - superior to PL-16 and PL-21. While Pakistan's 054A/P frigates have some better features than PLAN's own 54 frigates, PLAN operate the 52C, 52D ... 55. The CM-302 may be better than the YJ-83 but that is an ancient missile in the Chinese inventory.
These all conform with what I'm claiming about second rate and previous generation. China simply does NOT export its first rate equipment and the latest generation it is operating. Okay something like MBTs are exceptions but when it comes to anything sensitive and/or high tech, it just doesn't. Vehicles and artillery are just "lower level" types of equipment. J-10CE is being exported only as J-20A and J-20S are in service.
India sent CAP and over 70 fighter aircraft sorties according to Pakistan's official claims. If they only sent up a few, they did get at least 4 fighters confirmed knocked out. That would be a monumentally big failure on IAF's part. It is likely they suffered quite a lot more than 4 fighters shot down. 4 out of 70 is a better loss rate than 4 out of 20 for example. Whatever India's plans, they 100% went up with close air patrol and fighter escorts for strike packages. Why were they so unsuccessful in engaging PAF and even defending against PAF??
I find it hard to believe that Pakistani Airforce was able to blind IAF this effectively. All of this hints at significantly superior sensor, signals, spoofing and communication from PAF. This would have been achieved by some airborne equipment whether onboard J-10s or some other platforms. The Saab is an active sensor platform not a EW one. On record, Pakistan does not have any Chinese special mission aircraft outside of a few ZDK-03 which is just another sensor platform.
China does not export the exact same EW ecosystem it uses. It wasn't done by Turkish ground based Koral with very limited power output and range of effectiveness to blind Indian fighters so far within Indian airspace. Where many of those Indian fighters were shot down, they were over 100km within India's side of the border, suggesting possibly shot as they were turned back.
All of this hints to some "secret weapon" if you will that PAF holds an edge over India in. This is unlikely the active sensors like the Saab or ZDK. If India discovers the "tricks" Pakistan employs to hold such significant air advantage over India, then their time may become limited until Pakistan upgrades with newer trump cards like 5th gen fighters and new weapons... until then, they should not have revealed their desicive edge over IAF. But one thing's for sure, China would not allow Pakistan to freely use the best that China has itself. It wouldn't even be made an option. Whatever Pakistan has is going to be second rate at best and certainly at least one generation behind whatever China has fielded for itself.
I’d respectfully challenge the notion that Pakistan merely receives “second-rate” or obsolete Chinese systems. Such comparisons often overlook the critical context, particularly when the acquisition was made, what Pakistan required, and how those systems were integrated operationally.
Take the Type 054A/P deal as a clear example. When Pakistan signed for these frigates in 2014–15, the Type 054A was China’s most advanced operational frigate. Judging that deal today through the lens of China’s more recent 052D or 055 destroyers, leads to a flawed “apples-to-oranges” comparison. Pakistan acquired what was top-of-the-line at that time and tailored to its own naval requirements, including customized enhancements to sensors and weapons packages. The idea that Pakistan should automatically receive or expect whatever China reserves for its own use ignores strategic, operational, and financial considerations.
The same logic applies to the induction of the J-10CE. Pakistan procured this platform to counter India's acquisition of the Rafale, which was seen as a major shift in regional airpower balance. Comparing it to the J-20, a stealth air dominance fighter designed for China's own long-term strategic needs, ignores the very real and immediate requirements that shaped PAF's decision-making. Again, it’s about the right tool for the right job, not simply aiming for the most advanced item in the catalog.
Likewise, the notion that every platform not exported is somehow “withheld” due to sensitivity fails to account for Pakistan’s doctrine-driven selection process. Defense procurement isn’t about copying a supplier’s inventory; it’s about building a force structure that suits national needs. Many Chinese-origin systems in Pakistani service are not watered-down, but in fact represent a strong balance of capability, interoperability, and affordability.
So, while it's true that China, like any major power, reserves its most sensitive systems, the idea that Pakistan operates entirely on hand-me-downs doesn’t hold up when you examine the timing, context, and actual battlefield outcomes. The strength lies in how Pakistan employs and integrates these platforms, not just in the generation of the hardware itself.
Not quite sure how you arrived at the conclusion, it was a well-coordinated mix of systems like AWACS, fighters, BVRAAMs, drones, AD, ECM/ESM units, sourced from China, US, EU, Türkiye and also developed indigenously.
Equally important was the successful integration of systems like Link-16 and Link-17, which played a critical role in network-centric warfare. Let’s also not overlook the rigorous training and professionalism of the personnel such as pilots and ground Teams alike that made the system work as a cohesive whole.
Victory in modern warfare is rarely the result of a single system's contribution, it's about integration, adaptation, and execution.
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