Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Vertical stabilizer isn't that important for direct frontal RCS.

Overall claim that Tejas may be quite sneaky for a non-stealth a/c may very well be close to truth - it's really very small, and it was designed after RCS design long stopped being a special knowledge for premier a/c design houses.
It's not only a very small fighter jet but also has
1. Wing blending with the body
2. Y Intake
3. Canopy coated with a thin film transparent conductor of Indium Tin Oxide.
4. 90% Carbon composite body surface area
5. RAM Coating
All these features significantly reduce the overall RCS (The publicly available figure is of 0.5 meter square for MK1 block) moreover HAL , DRDO and ADA are fine tuning these features to further reduce RCS
 

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
Thrust to weight ratio of Tejas ranges between 1 to 1.07 depending on the amount of fuel
and it’s for MK1 , will increase further in MK1A because of weight of MK1A is 1000kg less than MK1 FOC
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You COMPLETELY misread the Thrust-to-Weight number in the article you posted!!!

Quoted here "8- The maximum T/W (thrust to weight ratio) of Tejas LCA is 1.00:1.07."

Notice the colon? The ToW number is expressed as a ratio, not a range! 1.0/1.07 = 0.935 which is magically the same as Wiki's 0.94.

If you can be so wrong about something so simple, it really casts doubt on everything else you claim.

-----------------------------------

Here is your reading assignment. The standardized ToW numbers from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Thrust-to-weight ratios, fuel weights, and weights of different fighter planes
Specifications
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
F-15CMiG-29KMiG-29B
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
F-35AF-35BF-35CF-22
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Engines thrust, maximum (N)259,420 (2)208,622 (2)176,514 (2)162,805 (2)81,402 (1)122,580 (1)177,484 (1)177,484 (1)177,484 (1)311,376 (2)89,800 (1)
Aircraft mass, empty (kg)17,01014,37912,72310,90006,58609,25013,29014,51515,78519,6736,560
Aircraft mass, full fuel (kg)23,14320,67117,96314,40508,88613,04421,67220,86724,40327,8369,500
Aircraft mass, max. take-off load (kg)36,74130,84522,40018,50012,70019,27731,75227,21631,75237,86913,300
Total fuel mass (kg)06,13306,29205,24003,50502,30003,79408,38206,35208,61808,16302,458
T/W ratio, full fuel1.141.031.001.150.951.050.840.870.741.140.94
T/W ratio, max. take-off load0.720.690.800.890.700.800.570.670.570.840.70
 

Attachments

  • 1675005688697.gif
    1675005688697.gif
    42 bytes · Views: 11

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's not only a very small fighter jet but also has

1. Wing blending with the body
not evidence of stealth. In fact, Tejas' lower fuselage is prominently curved which is unstealth.
2. Y Intake
Also true for JF-17 and Gripen.
3. Canopy coated with a thin film transparent conductor of Indium Tin Oxide.
Also true for all modern fighters.
4. 90% Carbon composite body surface area
As explained in my previous post, does not decrease RCS.
5. RAM Coating
No evidence and highly unlikely given the addition maintenance required. Effectiveness of RAM is also limited without proper shaping.
All these features significantly reduce the overall RCS (The publicly available figure is of 0.5 meter square for MK1 block) moreover HAL , DRDO and ADA are fine tuning these features to further reduce RCS
No this is not how RCS works. You can reduce the RCS of various components of an aircraft to 0 and still end up with massive RCS because of the features you did not reduce RCS for. RCS is determined by the weakest link.
 

Jason_

Junior Member
Registered Member
So now let me point out features on the Tejas that are significant sources of RCS.
1. Tejas' radar bay is perpendicular to the ground.
2. Tejas' pitot intake lips are perpendicular to the ground.
3. Tejas' intake diverter forms a cavity with the fuselage.
4. Tejas has one single vertical stabilizer perpendicular to the ground.
5. Tejas' fuselage is curved. This allows high radar return from multiple angles.
6. Tejas' pitot tube, refueling probe, datalink antenna, ram air intake and RWR antenna all protrude from the airframe. On a stealth aircraft they would be conformal.View recent photos.png
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Vertical stabilizer isn't that important for direct frontal RCS.

Overall claim that Tejas may be quite sneaky for a non-stealth a/c may very well be close to truth - it's really very small, and it was designed after RCS design long stopped being a special knowledge for premier a/c design houses.

There's a reason for all actual stealth aircraft, even Su-57, to not have them: vertical stabilizer spikes RCS for any angle other than exactly 0 degrees frontal.

Small size also is less relevant for RCS. Referring to post by @Jason_, the frontal area scales by square of length but mass scales by cube. So being smaller doesn't mean as low RCS as you'd think. In addition, corner retroreflectors are formed with externally mounted munitions anyhow, making the clean configuration much less relevant for actual combat situations.

Then he also pointed out a helpful picture for all the other RCS increasing features.
 

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
You COMPLETELY misread the Thrust-to-Weight number in the article you posted!!!

Quoted here "8- The maximum T/W (thrust to weight ratio) of Tejas LCA is 1.00:1.07."

Notice the colon? The ToW number is expressed as a ratio, not a range! 1.0/1.07 = 0.935 which is magically the same as Wiki's 0.94.

If you can be so wrong about something so simple, it really casts doubt on everything else you claim.

-----------------------------------

Here is your reading assignment. The standardized ToW numbers from
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Thrust-to-weight ratios, fuel weights, and weights of different fighter planes
Specifications
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
F-15CMiG-29KMiG-29B
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
F-35AF-35BF-35CF-22
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Engines thrust, maximum (N)259,420 (2)208,622 (2)176,514 (2)162,805 (2)81,402 (1)122,580 (1)177,484 (1)177,484 (1)177,484 (1)311,376 (2)89,800 (1)
Aircraft mass, empty (kg)17,01014,37912,72310,90006,58609,25013,29014,51515,78519,6736,560
Aircraft mass, full fuel (kg)23,14320,67117,96314,40508,88613,04421,67220,86724,40327,8369,500
Aircraft mass, max. take-off load (kg)36,74130,84522,40018,50012,70019,27731,75227,21631,75237,86913,300
Total fuel mass (kg)06,13306,29205,24003,50502,30003,79408,38206,35208,61808,16302,458
T/W ratio, full fuel1.141.031.001.150.951.050.840.870.741.140.94
T/W ratio, max. take-off load0.720.690.800.890.700.800.570.670.570.840.70
It's for MK1 block which weighs 6500 kg , MK1A weighs 5500 kg , weight is reduced by 1000kg in MK1A
I accept that I did a mistake but Wikipedia doesn't have the accurate data either As per HAL brochure in Aero India 2019, Tejas ferry range is quoted at 2000km+.
 

Attachments

  • CAEDC91D-8F3B-45BF-8926-FCC89A47EF3F.png
    CAEDC91D-8F3B-45BF-8926-FCC89A47EF3F.png
    838.3 KB · Views: 17

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
not evidence of stealth. In fact, Tejas' lower fuselage is prominently curved which is unstealth.

Also true for JF-17 and Gripen.

Also true for all modern fighters.

As explained in my previous post, does not decrease RCS.

No evidence and highly unlikely given the addition maintenance required. Effectiveness of RAM is also limited without proper shaping.

No this is not how RCS works. You can reduce the RCS of various components of an aircraft to 0 and still end up with massive RCS because of the features you did not reduce RCS for. RCS is determined by the weakest link.
RCS of Tejas is 0.5 meter square that sums it all up this figure is publicly available now don’t say Hindustan Aeronautics Limited , Aeronautical Development Agency and Defense Research and Development Organization of India is lying about the RCS of Tejas
The RAM coating applied on Tejas is different from that being developed for AMCA
 

Attachments

  • 6D3A9AAE-1ABE-4981-AEDB-073DBD684EA5.jpeg
    6D3A9AAE-1ABE-4981-AEDB-073DBD684EA5.jpeg
    222.3 KB · Views: 16

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Interesting

These are internet buffoons found all over South Asia they try to sensationalise the news be it about the Millitary or the economy
everyone in India is now talking about 5 trillion and 10 trillion dollar economy , go to Indian defense forum and you will find everyone suggesting how to become a 5 trillion dollar economy , there are two lobbies in India one is 10 trillion lobby and another is 5 trillion lobby they’re fighting with each other on Indiandefense forum
But it’s true that India is buying jet packs and robotic mules
The Ministry of Defence has issued two separate RFPs for procurement of 48 jetpacks and 100 robotic mules
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Attachments

  • 66B4BAE3-90A3-4605-8CF2-75F5D790EF1A.jpeg
    66B4BAE3-90A3-4605-8CF2-75F5D790EF1A.jpeg
    60.6 KB · Views: 12

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Small size also is less relevant for RCS. Referring to post by @Jason_, the frontal area scales by square of length but mass scales by cube. So being smaller doesn't mean as low RCS as you'd think. In addition, corner retroreflectors are formed with externally mounted munitions anyhow, making the clean configuration much less relevant for actual combat situations.
Small size is still highly relevant when other measures are either equally taken, not taken, or the aspect isn't exactly helpful to the matter(side, for example).
 
Top