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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Thank America and Bush 2 for that.

Basically America cut an India sized hole in the NPT so it can do business with India and try to make it a proper counter to China.

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But US is not a party to the issue of Russia transferring nuclear technology to India under lease. Russia could do the same with Pakistan and it should be OK.

Ofcourse, US can sanction but it would be unilateral and won't be under the guise of protecting NPT.


Do you know if Russian sailors are present in INS Chakra?
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
If Indian national auditor is to be believed MiG-29K is the opposite of MiG-29 - from Wiki: "The serviceability of MiG-29K was reported ranging from 15.93% to 37.63% and that of MiG-29KUB ranging from 21.30% to 47.14%; with 40 engines (62%) being rejected/withdrawn from service due to design defects."

With 36 MiG-29Ks and 8 MiG-29KUBs in service that's 5 to 13 MiG-29Ks and 1 to 3 MiG-29KUBs. For two carriers in rotation there should be at least 24 aircraft ready at any time. Consequently the quality of pilots must be abysmal.

I don't know if these issues have been resolved but there must be a reason why the Su-33s are retained in the Northern Fleet despite MiG-29K being delivered. It can't be just a need for aircraft since Su-30s would be preferable. It must be the ability to land on deck. My guess is that you can't design a carrier-based aircraft without first learning how not to do it and, unfortunately for India, MiG-29K is that lesson.

If the above suspicion is correct then India has only a handful of aircraft which makes it impractical to waste money on a new and untested design (the Vishal-class) before sorting out the basic combat capability for the two aircraft carriers you already have. That requires buying Super Hornets or Rafales which will cost several billion dollars and won't arrive before 2025-26 at the earliest. By that time India might get sufficient number of air defense escorts but it won't have an SSN to screen the battlegroup from below.

If your carrier battlegroup travels at 21 knots or more you need an SSN for escort. AIP propulsion is incapable of sustaining such speeds.
And that's why India launched this.
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Fancy acronym aside ( it gets me often), I have earlier raised suspicion about it being a beneficiary of the Rafale deal. There is a precedent for India taking design knowledge from France for Tejas ( part of Mirage deal).
Clarification would be good.

There was also some talks about India acquiring Rafale M as early as 2012.
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Can rafale take off using ski-jump? Maybe. I thought it was optimized for Catobar operations. Rafale M also doesn't have folding wings. So hence, TEDBF of India?
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
But US is not a party to the issue of Russia transferring nuclear technology to India under lease. Russia could do the same with Pakistan and it should be OK.

Ofcourse, US can sanction but it would be unilateral and won't be under the guise of protecting NPT.


Do you know if Russian sailors are present in INS Chakra?
The point is the US opened the door through its own shenanigans and the Russians walked right on through. The US and it’s vassals could hardly kick up a stink about Russia doing essentially what Washington armed twisted the NPT to specifically allow.

Russia could transfer nuclear tech to Pakistan or anyone else, but then the west would impose heavy sanctions on it for breaching the NPT. Not one fart from any of them about the Indian SSN deal though.

As for Russian sailors, I have not heard anything on that, but it seems unlikely, at least this long into the lease. Maybe some would have gone with the boat initially to help train up the Indian crew, but there would be precious little value in India leasing the Akula to gain experience if Russians are still doing all the most technically advance jobs still. Would not rule it out, but would be a ridiculous waste of money if so.

It is likely that the Indians don’t have access to the seal reactor itself, but that stills allows them to operate the boat as normal using standard controls.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Russia could transfer nuclear tech to Pakistan or anyone else, but then the west would impose heavy sanctions on it for breaching the NPT. Not one fart from any of them about the Indian SSN deal though.
Well the west could sanction the Pakistan hypothetical deal but it would not be under NPT and not for leases. Lease is not mentioned in the NPT (?) Have they amended the NPT for including leases?

Because India has signed to lease another Akula class from Russia.

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Well the west could sanction the Pakistan hypothetical deal but it would not be under NPT and not for leases. Lease is not mentioned in the NPT (?) Have they amended the NPT for including leases?

Because India has signed to lease another Akula class from Russia.

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Leases is a can of worms because the British technically only ‘lease’ their Trident missiles from the US.

Personally I don’t tend to waste much time with the legal fine print because western nations will always interpret it whatever way it suits them.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
I think 003 will get commissioned first before this baby
type 033 will take some time owing to the new systems employed. It'll certainly be quickly built but sea trials and commissioning is likely to be relatively lengthy process.

India's military budget is facing headwinds due to economic turmoil. They are buying many big ticket items but at the same time forgoing many others ( another carrier etc ). Quite good for China. In many ways, China's pressure tactics seem to be working.

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There are some purchases of India that makes sense. Many others don't make much long term sense. Maybe its just me. Items like MQ 9 Predator drones, Apache, Chinooks etc are quite odd purchases.
 

KampfAlwin

Junior Member
Registered Member
How does Vikrant compare to Type 002? It looks like it's based on a Kiev-class. Did they have another AC design based off the old UK carriers they operated?
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member

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"Commissioning of this IAC next year would be a befitting tribute to India's 75th year of India's independence", he said."The combat capability, reach and versatility of the aircraft carrier will add formidable capabilities in the defence of our country and help secure India's interests in the maritime domain," the defence minister said
 
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