Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


paintgun

Senior Member
it will be a nightmare to rely on the C-17s to transport and support the Arjuns

they better be using them as elite or guard divisions
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
C17 will replace IL-76

and C130 will replace the An-32, which is used by the Special Forces

incidently India paid $1.2 billion for 6 x C130Js with opition of 6 more

so tally it up

at the end of the day India has/will paid around $10 billion for 16 C17 and 12 C130J

just check how much Canada paid in comparison for 17 x C130Js and 4 x C17, India paid alot more!
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
C17 will replace IL-76

and C130 will replace the An-32, which is used by the Special Forces

incidently India paid $1.2 billion for 6 x C130Js with opition of 6 more

so tally it up

at the end of the day India has/will paid around $10 billion for 16 C17 and 12 C130J

just check how much Canada paid in comparison for 17 x C130Js and 4 x C17, India paid alot more!
Well, with the P-8s, the Surveillance drones (and if they are the follow-on to the Global Hawk, then they are getting top of the line stuff), the C-17s, the C-130Js, etc. the Indian military is becomeing very heavily invested in the US. If they chose to go with any US fighter aircraft in the future (F-18s or F-35s they will be even more so)

I like to see that and believe in the end it will be a very good thing for India and for our relations...but it does seem like they are really paying through the nose. I wonder if those contracts include all sorts of logistical, training, maintenance, spares, etc. support in the pricing?
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
Well, with the P-8s, the Surveillance drones (and if they are the follow-on to the Global Hawk, then they are getting top of the line stuff), the C-17s, the C-130Js, etc. the Indian military is becomeing very heavily invested in the US. If they chose to go with any US fighter aircraft in the future (F-18s or F-35s they will be even more so)

I like to see that and believe in the end it will be a very good thing for India and for our relations...but it does seem like they are really paying through the nose. I wonder if those contracts include all sorts of logistical, training, maintenance, spares, etc. support in the pricing?
yes since India has not really operated American equipment in the past this does include ground and support equipment and also training

but even then in some cases they are paying 2 times as much for certain systems

India right now is just happy to get its hands on frontline American equipment, they will not go for fighters as such, quite simply because Indian military is weary of American sanctions in case of war

can u imagine if India bought 126 F18 E/Fs and US put embargo on India? that would be a nightmare situation for India and one which they simply cant afford

Cargo planes and Surveillance systems are not considered by India as being lethal loss if sanctions land on them, but fighter aircraft, definately yes
 

MwRYum

Captain
Well, with the P-8s, the Surveillance drones (and if they are the follow-on to the Global Hawk, then they are getting top of the line stuff), the C-17s, the C-130Js, etc. the Indian military is becomeing very heavily invested in the US. If they chose to go with any US fighter aircraft in the future (F-18s or F-35s they will be even more so)

I like to see that and believe in the end it will be a very good thing for India and for our relations...but it does seem like they are really paying through the nose. I wonder if those contracts include all sorts of logistical, training, maintenance, spares, etc. support in the pricing?
If they getting closer with the US, then India's future policies won't stray too far from American's wishes as well, for it ain't like the Russian's that you can oil it with hard currency or find alternatives who only concerns about money, Americans keep a pretty tight leash on the supply chains.

But then again, India have always been willing to play proxy in the West's blockade against China, so it won't be too bad either, and with the US now re-focus on China, we can expect the US taking more bites into India's defense-industrial complex, though it won't necessary translate into improved efficiency of the latter...
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
I understood that one of the objections against the Arjun tank was that it weighted more than sixty tons and so was too heavy for many bridges and to be airlifted. Arjun Mk I has now come out at 62 tons, Mk II 3 or 4 tons heavier according to the article in Business Standard. Have those ten thousand (?) bridges now been reinforced?
They are being supplemented by the Sarvatra bridge, that is designed exclusively to take Arjun's weight :
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Anyway, they date from the British era and some day or the other they have to be overhauled.
india bought 10 x C17 for $4.1 billion, some say the price could reach almost $ 6 billion, if the opition for 6 more is taken then the price will go up even further

for only 16 cargo planes, thats a hell of a price tag, i mean we are talking more than $ 500 million per plane
That's true, because it includes not only the flyaway cost of the plane ($200 million) but also cost of logistics, spares, training and maintenance contracts for many decades after it enters service.

Kuwait paid $690 million for just one C-17 plane (the official US DoD release :
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)

Besides, the IAF won't use the C-17s for war. In fact, their primary use shall be in civillian rescue operations during floods, food supplies to tribal areas and jungles of India, as also mountanous regions bordering Tibet and Pakistan.
Well, with the P-8s, the Surveillance drones (and if they are the follow-on to the Global Hawk, then they are getting top of the line stuff), the C-17s, the C-130Js, etc. the Indian military is becomeing very heavily invested in the US. If they chose to go with any US fighter aircraft in the future (F-18s or F-35s they will be even more so)
India won't buy the F-35. Its already started work on the AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) :
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But then again, India have always been willing to play proxy in the West's blockade against China, so it won't be too bad either, and with the US now re-focus on China, we can expect the US taking more bites into India's defense-industrial complex, though it won't necessary translate into improved efficiency of the latter...
India is doing no such thing. India went against the US on Iran at the UN. At the recently concluded BRICS summit in New Delhi, Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa formed a new power bloc.
 

asif iqbal

Brigadier
C17 is going to either work with or replace IL-76, its a military cargo airlifter and will most certainly be used in time of war for transport

u must be kidding me if u say it is for non-military use!

if its for civilian use then why isnt it being handed over to civilian operators rather than the airforce?
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
C17 is going to either work with or replace IL-76, its a military cargo airlifter and will most certainly be used in time of war for transport

u must be kidding me if u say it is for non-military use!

if its for civilian use then why isnt it being handed over to civilian operators rather than the airforce?
C-17 is used by US and UK to transport soldiers and equipment thousands of miles to Iraq and Afghanistan or wherever on the globe they have operations.

Indian military won't have such operations in the forseeable future. But a large part of our population living in villages, tribal areas face floods. Till now, the IAF's IL-76 and Antonovs were being used for these. Now C-17s shall be deployed.

Of course, during war time the C-17s will be pressed into service wherever needed. But most of their lives will be spent in civillian ops like this :
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Indianfighter

Junior Member
Indianfighter, thank you for that summary, will be quite helpful for those who don't follow the recent news

how about the AF procurement present-2020ish, here is what i gather from recollection :

- MKIs around 190, with more to come, do you have planned total production numbers or end date?
- Mig-29-K/UBs for the carriers, 2 squadrons?
- Mig-29UPG, number escapes me, 4 squadrons?
- Rafales, 128, with more options
- Mirage upgrade
- LCAs Mk II and Mk. II, also naval variants
- AMCA?
- PAK FAs, 300 total
- Pilatus trainers

retiring birds after 2020:

- Mig-21 and variants, 2014
- Jaguars
- Mig-23s and Mig-27s

i remember there is a very nice graph of Indian AF force structure at Keypub, wish someone can pull it here

About Su-30 MKIs, total number planned is 272 (per wiki). 137 are in active service.

2 squadrons of MiG-29 KUB are ordered, probably one each for the Gorshkov carrier and the indigenous aircraft carrier being developed. Till both the carriers arrive, these KUBs will be stationed in the coastal town of Goa.

MiG-29 (~60) and Mirages (~45) are being upgraded. The Mirage upgrade is hugely expensive; a JF-17 can roughly be bought for every 2 Mirage upgrades.

126 Rafales have been selected. Order will be placed after more cost negotitaions, which can take months. Although an option of 63 additional jets is there, it is not likely to be executed (Indian defence procedures nearly always include an option of a few more than contracted. For example, in addition to the 10 C-17s ordered, there is an option for 6 more. That is not likely).

LCA Mark 1 --> 40 ordered. Completed 1,800+ test flights. LSP 7 has been handed over to the IAF for their evaluation.

LCA Mark 2 --> 99 GE-F414 engines have been ordered. These are also used in the Gripen NG model. Design of the LCA II is complete.

LCA Navy --> NP-1 has completed taxi-trials, but it seems its base is 500 kg overweight. US Navy is being consulted to reduce weight. It shall also find service in Gorshkov and the new aircraft carrier.

AMCA : Only preliminary design is complete.

PAK-FA : A ridiculous deal in which India will buy the T-50 designed for the Russian Air Force (and not the much hyped customized twin-seater). It will pay an insane $5 to $10 billion for assembly rights in India. All the earlier stories of co-development were baseless.

All MiGs shall be retired out by 2020 and replaced by LCAs and Rafales. Jaguars shall continue till next decade, as in 2007 itself about 20 Jags were manufactued in India.
have to say Indian Navy's surface combatants is pretty well decked (kinda touching the CDF discussion on this same subject), also i think although they are pumping less vessel than PLAN shipyards can, the numbers (and future planned) seems sufficient to defend the IOR
That's primarily because the Navy focusses a lot on indigenous hardware. Its built a reputation for itself, quite unlike teh army and air force, which prefer imports.

We know how the Arjun got inducted. Else the T-90 lobby within the army is too strong. We shall see the same struggles with LCA vs. Rafale (remember the option of 63 more Rafales) and most importantly AMCA vs. PAK-FA.
 
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MwRYum

Captain
Either you're just daft or try to lie, the C-17s are premium-grade military transport plane capable to transport MBT-class cargo, essential in bringing reinforcement fast in case the Sino-India or India-Pakistan borders heats up...unlikely for now but equally likely that another war between India and Pakistan flare up in the future as well, and very likely drag China into the mud hole.

And if you want me to be convinced that India holds no hostility against China, well...the day when India no longer provide safe haven for Tibetan separatists and deport those sorry lot back to China, then I'll buy it.

That's primarily because the Navy focusses a lot on indigenous hardware. Its built a reputation for itself, quite unlike teh army and air force, which prefer imports.
It'd be better for them if they could solve the efficiency problem at the R&D and production sides, so far most of their major projects took way too long to fulfill. India needs to overhaul its bureaucracy structure to make it work.
 

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