Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

aksha

Captain
MIG - 21 are well known among IAF pilots as a "FLYING COFFINS"...

not the plane's design problem or something actually ,
their airframes are too old to be in service.

not long ago the IAF loved the Mig 21 just as much as they loved the SU 30 MKI

the Flying Coffin , was a name given by the media.

but yeah , they should be replaced as quickly as possible


the following are from the book
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"......................................
Another thing that comes out very clearly in the book is that everyone who flew the MiG 21 loved her and considered the aircraft to be a safe and well behaved thoroughbred in which they could beat any other high performance aircraft in combat. Considering that these words have come from at least two people who later became chief of air staff, this information cannot be dismissed lightly as it has been in the lay media who have played an ignorant and unfair role in painting the MiG 21 as an unsafe aircraft.

On the role of the lay media in giving a needless bad reputation to the MiG 21, Air Marshal Satish Inamdar (later vice chief of air staff) writes with some angst saying

“It hurts like hell..this public perception was criminally unfair and contagiously demoralizing both within the air force and outside” . Former CAS AM Tipnis notes that the MiG 21 was used as a trainer (due to the absence of a viable advanced jet trainer. In a moving piece, Tipnis writes, ”The MiG 21 has taken hundreds of pilots onto her lap, taught them, challenged their skills, done their bidding, executed their tasks, brought them indescribable joys, carried them though their occassional crassness and and alas, sometimes succumbed to her own frailty, or to her rider's ineptness. How many of the privileged few, who have tasted the ecstasy of the blue yonder with this trusted mate, have felt they had their maker's final call, but had it adjourned to another day through the blessed stubbornness of our beloved lady to protect her own?



AND this from air commodore Surendra Singh Tyagi
Dispelled myths about MiG 21 being ‘flying coffins’, he said the ‘economies of scale’ worked against the MiG, lending it the disrepute. “In IAF, we gauge safety of a fighter aircraft based on accident rate, which is calculated in terms of accidents per 10,000 flying hours. This rate, at under 0.7 for the most current MiG – the Bison – is no longer alarming as compared with average accident rate for all aircraft deployed by the air force,” he said.

“Earlier, MiG used to comprise nearly 65% of IAF fleet and two of three planes flown are MiGs. Therefore, it registered more crashes than others. Also, most of them were used as training aircraft, in which the chances of human error are higher,” he explained.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The flying coffin is real.. However not for the mig 21. The f104 star fighter owned that title.... And deservedly so.
Lot's of aircraft used to get those names.

The newer fly-by-wire aircraft are easier for a pilot to get "used" to.

With many of the older aircraft, pilots had to develop the "knack" for a number of them...and if they didn't, they could flat kill you.

The F-8 Crusader was as good an aircraft for its day and mission as we had...but it was also called the ensign Killer (as was the F-11 Tiger, and F-7 Cutlass I believe). A lot of new naval pilots who did not get the knack quick enough, did not get the chance.

Many of the older aircraft were unforgiving in that way, and got names accordingly...particularly for the noobs.
 

aksha

Captain
With many of the older aircraft, pilots had to develop the "knack" for a number of them...and if they didn't, they could flat kill you.


Many of the older aircraft were unforgiving in that way, and got names accordingly...particularly for the noobs.


the Mig 21 has a few problems , too
as seen from this article by the the late Wing Commander
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MiG-21, although a high demand aircraft, is docile and has no aerodynamic vices. It has excellent handling characteristics and has served to provide very valuable flying experience to a large number of IAF pilots. Some like the previous and the present CAS swear by the aircraft. It is the docility of the aircraft that not only generates a good bit of confidence but also encourages forays into exceeding the limits of the stipulated flight envelope. In air combat maneuvers, many inexperienced pilots have got into trouble without realizing it. At high angles of attack, the induced drag increases sharply and unless the angle of attack is quickly reduced, the aircraft develops a high rate of descent, which cannot be arrested with the power available (even with reheat). Added to this, there is no protest from the aircraft like severe shudder, wing rocking. etc, prevalent in other types of aircraft. This gives a feeling of well-being and a number of pilots did not recognize the danger in time to take recovery action or eject.

The training of pilots is under constant review with procedures being updated regularly and creating the required level of awareness. IAF has very strict norms during each stage of training and only those who have the capability are posted to fly fighters. Even with the finest of filters there is always someone who would get through various stages without showing any weakness. Some of these individuals get in to trouble, fail to recover from difficult situations and sometimes they compound a simple emergency. This is a human failing and is no different in any other part of the world and Indians alone cannot be singled out for it. One particular CAS (in mid 80s) is on record to have stated that “I would rather lose a pilot in an error type of accident than in actual combat, for those who survive the rigors of peace time would be really combat ready”. While this is one way of viewing an accident, the proper way would be to consider even “One accident as One too many”. It is very difficult particularly for the families of those who lost someone close to accept error or error of judgment on the part the individual. It must be appreciated that the best of professionals make mistakes, be it Tendulkar, Tiger Woods or Pete Sampras. A fighter pilot has no chance like these top sportsman who are firmly on ground (not having challenged gravity) and are able to play the next innings or the next match.


another problem with the Mig21 crashes was the botched up procurement process of new trainers , which took almost 2 decades , resulting in the Mig 21 being used as a trainer.

about Wing commander Suresh
he has shot down an F86 sabre , and was one of the pilots who flew in the battle of Longewala

Suresh saw combat flying with the IAF in the 1965 and 1971 wars with Pakistan. In 1965 he took part in breaking up a Pakistani armored attack in the Khem Karan sector, in which his plane was badly damaged, but he managed to fly it back with a lot of warning lights burning. In 1971 Suresh is remembered as part of the team of pilots who took part in the action over Longewala, and for shooting down a Pakistani F-86 Sabre over Talhar airfield in Pakistan. He was awarded a Vir Chakra for this.

He could have died on December 5th 1971. In the height of battle, while flying a Hunter at 500 miles an hour, less than 200 feet above the ground, guns blazing away at a Pakistani tank. "Kukke" was blinded by the flash and shock from a main gun shell fired by the tank he was shooting at. Momentarily disoriented, his aircraft scraped the ground on a sand dune in the deserts of Rajasthan, breaking off a 5 foot segment of tailpipe. But the grim reaper did not get him that day.

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aksha

Captain
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Seeking to give new life to its fleet of Russian transport aircraft, the air force has moved a Rs 4,000-crore proposal to upgrade its ageing IL 76/78 aircraft in a deal that could have a substantial spin off for the private defence manufacturing sector.

In a fresh proposal that has been moved earlier this month, the air force has sought the defence ministry’s approval for a comprehensive upgrade of its fleet of 17 IL 76 transport aircraft, as well as the seven IL 78 aerial refuelers that it is operating.

Sources said that the upgrade contract would have a Rs 1,200-crore offsets value, a substantial portion of which is likely to be pumped into the private manufacturing sector that is already tying up with various Russian entities.

Known as the ‘Gajraj’ in the air force, the IL 76 was first ordered in 1983 and has been India’s main heavy lift aircraft before the arrival of the Boeing C 17 aircraft in 2013. The upgrade, sources said, includes new engines for the aircraft that will substantially increase its service life by up to 15 more years.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The flying coffin is real.. However not for the mig 21. The f104 star fighter owned that title.... And deservedly so.
Lots of opinions gentlemen, but the Mig 21, while a turning fool, will bite, Kwai named the F-104, Jeff the F-8,( conversely the follow on A-7 still has one of the best safety records), but truth be told the Mig 21 is a very intense, though relatively simple aircraft, I don't recall any stories of a Mig 21 being "dead sticked" by anybody, and despite popular thought, ejection seats are even more dangerous animals, they just beat the alternative?
I myself was offered a ride along in a Mig-21, told the gent that would be lovely, thought to myself??? ain't NO way I'm strapping that contraption on my tender old butt, NO WAY!

So if you want to believe a fairy tale, you help yourself, but the Mig 21 is more dangerous to the operator than the bad guys are, just do the Math! and the fact that somebody shot down a poor old F-86 of the Pakistani Air Force proves what? a second gen is better than a first gen??? I'd say that's about right, but as Jeff stated all early birds were nasty old bags? you can quote me on that!
 

aksha

Captain
So if you want to believe a fairy tale, you help yourself, but the Mig 21 is more dangerous to the operator than the bad guys are, just do the Math! and the fact that somebody shot down a poor old F-86 of the Pakistani Air Force proves what? a second gen is better than a first gen??? I'd say that's about right, but as Jeff stated all early birds were nasty old bags? you can quote me on that!

he shot down the sabre in his Hawker Hunter........

the most famous kill of the Mig 21 in the 1971 war were Four F104 starfighters. in dogfight.

no Mig 21 was lost to the Starfighter in that war.


the only Mig 21 lost in Air Combat in the '71 war was shot down by an F-86 Sabre;)


I myself was offered a ride along in a Mig-21, told the gent that would be lovely, thought to myself??? ain't NO way I'm strapping that contraption on my tender old butt, NO WAY!

imagine what would happen if you use it as a trainer for new pilots.............
exactly what the Indian Airforce did,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
it was one bad decision, lots of pilots died.
there was a time a few years when one heard of a Mig 21 crash almost every month in the newspapers. the situation improved once the trainers started arriving in numbers.

as the wg cdr. said
At high angles of attack, the induced drag increases sharply and unless the angle of attack is quickly reduced, the aircraft develops a high rate of descent, which cannot be arrested with the power available (even with reheat). Added to this, there is no protest from the aircraft like severe shudder, wing rocking. etc, prevalent in other types of aircraft. This gives a feeling of well-being and a number of pilots did not recognize the danger in time to take recovery action or eject.
 
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aksha

Captain
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Russia has completed the upgrade of all of India's Ilyushin Il-38 anti-submarine aircraft to SD standard, Nikolay Talikov, Ilyushin general designer and deputy general director, said Wednesday.



"We have completed this work, all five of the Indian Navy's aircraft have been modernized to SD standard," Talikov said at the MAKS-2015 International Aviation and Space Salon.

The Ilyushin Il-38N, referred to as the Il-38SD in India, is an improved version of the Il-38 aircraft (NATO reporting name May), equipped with a modern Sea Dragon anti-submarine navigation system, including high-resolution radar, display and thermal imaging subsystems.

According to Talikov, Russia and India are currently in discussions for modernizing the Ilyushin Il-76 (Candid) multi-purpose strategic airlifters and the Ilyushin Il-78 (Midas) aerial-refueling tanker fleet. The two countries are considering a sale of the new Ilyushin Il-76MD-90A transport aircraft, he added.

MAKS-2015 opened on Tuesday in the Russian city of Zhukovsky. More than over 400,000 visitors are expected during the course of the six-day event. About 760 companies from 35 countries are expected to participate in the air and space show.



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aksha

Captain
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India’s Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle rolls out to the Second Launch Pad at its launch base on Sriharikota Island on India’s east coast. Credit: ISRO

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India’s GSAT 6 communications satellite is pictured before encapsulation inside the GSLV’s payload fairing. Credit: ISRO

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A government-owned communications satellite heading for geostationary orbit 22,300 miles above Earth is set for launch Thursday to on a nine-year mission to to support the Indian military.

The 4,667-pound GSAT 6 spacecraft will lift off aboard India’s Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle at 1122 GMT (7:22 a.m. EDT) Thursday from the Satish Dhawan Space Center, a spaceport situated about 50 miles north of Chennai on India’s east coast.

Shrouded inside the GSLV’s metallic nose fairing, the satellite is India’s 25th geostationary communications satellite and has a mission to serve “strategic users,” according to the Indian Space Research Organization. Indian news reports said the prime customer for the new signal relay craft is the Indian military.

ISRO officials said the 29-hour countdown began Wednesday, and launch crews planned to fill the rocket’s four liquid-fueled boosters and second stage with storable hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide propellants later in the day. Fueling of the GSLV’s third stage with cryogenic liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen will come in the final hours of the countdown.

The first stage’s solid propellant load was packed inside the motor when it was assembled.

Launch is scheduled for 4:52 p.m. local time Thursday at the Indian launch base, and 161-foot-tall GSLV will fire away on the power of four hydrazine-burning strap-on Vikas booster engines and a solid-fueled core motor. At peak power, the first stage and the boosters will generate more than 1.7 million pounds of thrust.

The four liquid-fueled boosters will ignite at T-minus 4.8 seconds and ramp up to full thrust before the solid first stage fires when the countdown clock reaches zero.

The core motor will consume its propellant load by T+plus 1 minute, 46 seconds, followed by shutdown of the four Vikas booster engines at T+plus 2 minutes, 29 seconds. A single second stage Vikas powerplant will take over and burn until just shy of the mission’s five-minute point, during which time the GSLV’s payload fairing will release once the rocket is out of the dense lower atmosphere — a milestone projected at T+plus 3 minutes, 50 seconds.

A cryogenic upper stage engine will ignite at T+plus 4 minutes, 54 seconds, for a nearly 12-minute firing to propel the GSAT 6 satellite into an oval-shaped geostationary transfer orbit. Spacecraft separation is schedule for T+plus 17 minutes, 4 seconds, according to ISRO.

The launch is targeting an orbit with a high point of 22,353 miles (35,975 kilometers), a low point of 105 miles (170 kilometers) and an inclination of 19.95 degrees.

Thursday’s launch marks the third time the Indian-built cryogenic engine, which burns a super-cold mixture of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, has flown on the GSLV. Earlier GSLV flights, dating back to the rocket’s maiden mission in 2001, employed a Russian-made cryogenic third stage.

The all-Indian version of the GSLV, called the GSLV Mk.2, failed on its first launch in April 2010 due to a failure in the upper stage engine’s liquid hydrogen turbopump. The second test launch of the GSLV Mk.2 in January 2014 was successful.

The launch of GSAT 6 is the ninth flight of the GSLV in both its all-Indian and part-Russian configurations. ISRO considers four of the eight launches to date as successful.

Thursday’s launch, designated GSLV-D6 by ISRO, is India’s third space mission of the year after two flawless flights of the smaller Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle.

GSAT 6 will fire its on-board propulsion system to circularize its orbit 22,300 miles above the equator, where it will park itself at 83 degrees east longitude and unfurl a nearly 20-foot (6-meter) S-band antenna, the largest reflector of its kind ever flown on an Indian communications satellite.

The spacecraft carries S-band and C-band communications payloads with five spot beams and one nationwide beam.
 

Jeff Head

General
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Naval Today said:
Commander-In-Chief of Israeli Navy, Vice Admiral Ram Rutberg, is on an official visit to India from 24 to 27 August.

The Vice Admiral Ram Rutberg called on Vice Admiral SPS Cheema, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief Western Naval Command 25 August.

He toured the Indian Naval Ship Kolkata, an indigenously designed and developed guided missile destroyer, where he interacted with Rear Admiral R Hari Kumar, Flag Officer Commanding Western Fleet. He also visited the Heritage Hall and Apollo Bunder museums of the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai.

The two navies have a long history of cooperation on many fronts and INS Trikand, a frontline warship of the Western Naval Command, visited Haifa, Israel from 19 to 22 August.
 
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