The premis of the thread was IF, not could. Assuming His troops were willing to go on then he would have gone on. I have faith that his abilites in both military skill and recruiting allies would have seen him thrash China the same way he thrashed everyone else.
If Alexander Invade China
- Thread starter simonov
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The premis of the thread was IF, not could. Assuming His troops were willing to go on then he would have gone on. I have faith that his abilites in both military skill and recruiting allies would have seen him thrash China the same way he thrashed everyone else.
And I don't think he could conquer even India. In India he was already having serious problems. The core of his armies, the Greeks themselves, just about had enough, and they're his most battle hardened troops. They were getting demoralized, and view the tropics and its diseases as a place of demons. The "allies" are of suspicious character, which you cannot vouch for loyalty. His armies became more mongrel as he moves further, using a lot of Persians among the ranks, who was also increasingly getting tired. This is not to mention that his troops are being beseiged with disease. Shields don't work well in tropical weather, the glue for lamination often coming off due to humidity. Imagine a phalanx with soldiers looking at their warped and falling apart shields.
Militarily, I don't think any particular greatness regarding Alexander and his battles.
What he faced was an unified but weak Persia, which made his job quite easy - you cut the central nerve of it and whole empire collasped. If Persia was splited, he would find it's a job impossible, just like Rome found later.
The greatness of Alexander is his capability of sensing the moment, he chose the right time to attack Persia. But when his troops entered India, after a few battles they found no hope to conquer the India. India was splited at that time and each tribe or kingdom was not very strong, but there was no central nerve so they had to battle everybody - and that totally exposed the weakness of Alexander and his troops.
To vent his frustration, Alexander killed the entire population of Massaga in India battle, which did explain something.
Militarily, Alexander actually only fought one war - with Persia. The vast area he conquered was the result of Persia Empire contribution, much less to his own effort.
The greeks had some real taste of warfares in India and they simply withdrew - they could only pick up the soft. Compared with Mongol, according to Chinese historical record, Mongols wiped out 60 kingdoms on their way marching to the west, against different culture, different people, different kingdoms, that really shows their military skill.
The greeks had some real taste of warfares in India and they simply withdrew - they could only pick up the soft. Compared with Mongol, according to Chinese historical record, Mongols wiped out 60 kingdoms on their way marching to the west, against different culture, different people, different kingdoms, that really shows their military skill.
What happened in India tells you a lot. For a commander that greatly inspired his troops for much of the Middle East, in the end, they were on the verge of deserting him. What happened to their vaunted discipline? So these disciplined soldiers felt they want to quit? It is not unlike Alexander to quit, but he *DID*. If one had studied the relentless he pursued his campaigns, what happened in the end is totally on odds to the earlier Alexander.
So what happened in India? Despite what (Greek) historians tried to tell, something must have happened to break the back of confidence in Alexander's army, if not on himself. Losing his horse Bellepheron didn't help things, it would have been perceived as a bad omen.
So what happened in India? Despite what (Greek) historians tried to tell, something must have happened to break the back of confidence in Alexander's army, if not on himself. Losing his horse Bellepheron didn't help things, it would have been perceived as a bad omen.
sinowarrior
Junior Member
For Alexander to recruit local population to fight is just like for Huns to recruit local Chinese to fight, I doubt the Chinese will fight under Alexander, and if Alexander is launching an attack through Northern route, he is likely to face Qin and Zhao around that time, both of them are fame for their prowess in warfare.
One reason why Persian Empire failed is that the PE failed to integrate cavalry into their own forces. The PE already suffered a number of reverses against the Scythians to the north, and it was from the Scythians that gave Alexander the idea to integrate a cavalry arm to his army.
In that way, Alexander was an innovator because he was the first in that region of the world to have a true cavalry force. He needed that cavalry to cover his flanks because he also modified the phalanx. by using longer pikes (13 to 16 feet long), he was able to create a phalanx that is four or five ranks deeps where the other Greeks, using 9 feet lances, are only able to produce phalanx up to 3 ranks deep. While giving greater concentraiton of power, this new phalanx however tends to be very stiff so he needed the cavalry to cover the sides.
Unlike the Persians, Zhao kingdom was the first Chinese kingdom to integrate cavalry into their forces, as a result of being introduced to the concept by the Huns. Zhao went as far as copying the nomad dress, trousers/pajamas et all, since wearing skirts (which the Greeks under Alexander still did) gets in the way of horseriding.
Being in the west, Qin also adopted cavalry into their ranks. Thus unlike the PE, Alexander would also be facing true integrated, joint cavalry-infantry forces, one that is also bolstered by the use of crossbow and iron weapons.
Qin is something else. The whole kingdom is an innovation by itself. Because of Legalist principles, the Qin is a state made from top to bottom, for war. The concept of a nation as a complete war machine, and this is it. It lacked the feudalistic baggage the other kingdoms have, and which Alexander himself has not thrown the yoke of either.
While Alexander understands the need to gain allies, the problem this guy has is that he demands allies must submit to the altar of Hercules, which Alexander claims as an ancestor. Do that against the Huns and proto-Tibetans, and you will surely get laughed at, and that is why I think he won't get far in getting allies.
In that way, Alexander was an innovator because he was the first in that region of the world to have a true cavalry force. He needed that cavalry to cover his flanks because he also modified the phalanx. by using longer pikes (13 to 16 feet long), he was able to create a phalanx that is four or five ranks deeps where the other Greeks, using 9 feet lances, are only able to produce phalanx up to 3 ranks deep. While giving greater concentraiton of power, this new phalanx however tends to be very stiff so he needed the cavalry to cover the sides.
Unlike the Persians, Zhao kingdom was the first Chinese kingdom to integrate cavalry into their forces, as a result of being introduced to the concept by the Huns. Zhao went as far as copying the nomad dress, trousers/pajamas et all, since wearing skirts (which the Greeks under Alexander still did) gets in the way of horseriding.
Being in the west, Qin also adopted cavalry into their ranks. Thus unlike the PE, Alexander would also be facing true integrated, joint cavalry-infantry forces, one that is also bolstered by the use of crossbow and iron weapons.
Qin is something else. The whole kingdom is an innovation by itself. Because of Legalist principles, the Qin is a state made from top to bottom, for war. The concept of a nation as a complete war machine, and this is it. It lacked the feudalistic baggage the other kingdoms have, and which Alexander himself has not thrown the yoke of either.
While Alexander understands the need to gain allies, the problem this guy has is that he demands allies must submit to the altar of Hercules, which Alexander claims as an ancestor. Do that against the Huns and proto-Tibetans, and you will surely get laughed at, and that is why I think he won't get far in getting allies.
sinowarrior
Junior Member
During the warring states, China developed the concept of total war and something that is very similar to trench warfare, Qin or Zhao’s army will build massive fortifications to block the bath of Alex’s troop and mass tens of thousands of cavalry armed with crossbow to harass and attack the supply depot and the rear of the enemy. All the famed ancient European land battle victories are involved with tactical battles, two armies facing each other, one crushes another. However the Chinese art of war is based on deception, strategic planning, and battles are won before two armies started fighting. Also the assumption is for Alex to gain local support, but Qin may will use 离间计 spreading rumors among the Alex’s generals and common soldiers, and it will be effective, since Alex’s troops are made from Indian, Greek and Persian, and the tensions between Greeks and Persian are well known, it is likely for Alex to be suspicious , his general turned against each other, and his horde will collapse on its own before battles are fought.
The "total war" concept started from the Lord of Shang, the God father of Legalist. He implemented the Legalism reform in Qin at 356 BC, the same year Alexander was born. He went to see King of Qin, the King told him, "Nobody cares Qin, that's the biggest humiliation of the world". Lord of Shang repliled, "The state is the machine of war".
Qin started the world first draft system, the foundation of the total war. The law required that every male reported to the state at the age 20, joined the army at the age 23. After 2 years service, he returned home as a reserve, ready being called by the state until 56. France was the first western country to have the similiar system in 1793, Prussia in 1813.
Lord of Shang also abandoned the tradition of aristocrats as the army officers. Qin troop officers were promoted from anybody, purly based on the merit of his war performance. And officers were professional, a soldier could become an officer as well. Oliver Cromwell did the same reform in Britain in 1645, to build his New Model Army.
Qin started the world first draft system, the foundation of the total war. The law required that every male reported to the state at the age 20, joined the army at the age 23. After 2 years service, he returned home as a reserve, ready being called by the state until 56. France was the first western country to have the similiar system in 1793, Prussia in 1813.
Lord of Shang also abandoned the tradition of aristocrats as the army officers. Qin troop officers were promoted from anybody, purly based on the merit of his war performance. And officers were professional, a soldier could become an officer as well. Oliver Cromwell did the same reform in Britain in 1645, to build his New Model Army.
The other Lord of Shang reform, to turn Qin into a warring machine:
Abandon the privilege of aristocrat's ownship of the land, the land was distributed to the regular citizen who was limited to has only two careers to choose: a soldier or a farmer
Set up the military rank system associated with officer's income, which turned officier into professional
Set up the state wide censorship system to collect information of the population
Anybody not married by certain age would be punished, anybody married but no kids would be punished
Two or more adult sons must separate to live to have their own homes, otherwise have to pay more tax
........
Abandon the privilege of aristocrat's ownship of the land, the land was distributed to the regular citizen who was limited to has only two careers to choose: a soldier or a farmer
Set up the military rank system associated with officer's income, which turned officier into professional
Set up the state wide censorship system to collect information of the population
Anybody not married by certain age would be punished, anybody married but no kids would be punished
Two or more adult sons must separate to live to have their own homes, otherwise have to pay more tax
........