Hong-Kong Protests


KYli

Senior Member
While the Brits did a lot of bad things, can you expand on the bolded parts of your post because I have never heard that before. thanks
Not a complete history but a partial description of the Six Day War. More atrocities happened afterward but not at this scale.
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It used to be more easy to find information about the Special Branch but google isn't what it used to be.
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Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
There wasn't any real demand for such political rights in Hong Kong, because that would have meant independence and not autonomy. You're welcome to show me one of the main pro-democracy parties making it a part of their manifesto pre-2012 to seek powers on those areas, but I can't recall it.

Plus Beijing has repeatedly "interpreted" the law to its own advantage, and the very fact it has now imposed this law on Hong Kong goes to show it could have directly intervened if a Chief Executive had overstepped their authority.

There was never a threat of Hong Kong taking defence or foreign policy powers, either legally or de facto.
When Hong Kong officials and media entities and activists with stated goals of either seeking greater political autonomy or challenging the central government's authority and court and cooperate with foreign government officials? Is that not considered a national security threat?


I don't think that's the case at all. Up until the shitty "reform" package, relations between HK and mainland China were fine. Then it came out that the CCP wanted to remove any choice from the election by limiting the field to 2 or 3 candidates its allies in HK would pick. But it didn't stop there. There was the kidnapping of the Causeway Bay Books staff, the unnecessary order that mainland Chinese security personnel could be staffed inside Hong Kong at the railway station, the extradition treaty, the police brutality following the protests, the fact that Beijing was perceived to order Lam to stay in office rather than resign, the veto on an independent investigation into the policing of the protests, etc. You can say that the CCP wasn't behind everything, but when its directly interfering on some of those things it can't then pretend it has no influence on the rest.

Individually these things might not have caused a problem, but together it's completely understandable why a lot of HKers started being openly hostile towards the CCP over the years.

That sounds an awful lot like victim blaming. "Everything in Hong Kong would have been fine if locals had just kept quiet and accepted the political scraps thrown from Beijing's table."
I think we might have differing views on who the "victims" of all this are...

But yes, if there was an understanding from the outset that 1C2S meant that Hong Kong would have a system that was different to China's but that ultimately it was geopolitically and politically subordinate to China and that any consideration of challenging the CCP on important issues would've been laughed out of the room and considered politically impossible to begin with, then we might not have emerged to this situation.
 

Janiz

Junior Member
Tell that to the British. They ruled with iron fist, committed many massacres, violated so many human rights and still get away with these and people of Hong Kong still worshiped the GB and claimed the colony years were just so free. Maybe China should do what the British did in HK and everything would be ok.
You just defeated your own argument. People in HK are more than aware what PRC can do to their own people...
 

localizer

Captain
Registered Member
You just defeated your own argument. People in HK are more than aware what PRC can do to their own people...

Do you have statistics on what percentage of the organizers and rioters were actually Chinese citizens?

All I know is that Falungong and other foreign infiltrators played significant roles and ran off like cowards after completing their assignments given by the US. Shit stirrers were sent from many countries to HK.

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KYli

Senior Member
You just defeated your own argument. People in HK are more than aware what PRC can do to their own people...
And after all the crimes and atrocities that the British did to HK people, many Hong Kongers still worshiped the British. If Anson Chan and people in HK cared so much about liberty, freedom, and universial suffrage, then why they didn't do anything in the Colonial years. Oh yes, Anson Chan was an elite in the British Colonial rule and she enjoyed all those benefits and powers that she could care less about how the British ruled with iron fist.

If people in HK have no problem with overlord British's rule with no unversial suffrage and only British appointees and atrocities back then, then why should they have problem with the CCP now.
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
You just defeated your own argument. People in HK are more than aware what PRC can do to their own people...
I hate hearing this. “Doing things to their own people”. It is just stupid. It is the #1 favourite argument of Fox News types.

Over 100K people dead in the US from coronavirus. The richest country in the world, the best universities in the world, the best hospitals in the world, these didn’t mean anything to those people.

With the passage of the NSL in HK, you have all these countries passing their judgement, talking about oppression/repression/human rights. Human rights are about Human life, right? 100K deaths is not the ultimate violation of human rights?

Failed GLF policy killed millions, don’t need to argue that. You can call them “Victims of Communism”. For them, they get a memorial in Washington DC.

What will the 100K+ dead in the USA get? Maybe Mike Pompeo is going to dedicate his next cheeseburger to them?

CCP didn’t kill one person in HK.
 

localizer

Captain
Registered Member
I hate hearing this. “Doing things to their own people”. It is just stupid. It is the #1 favourite argument of Fox News types.

Over 100K people dead in the US from coronavirus. The richest country in the world, the best universities in the world, the best hospitals in the world, these didn’t mean anything to those people.

With the passage of the NSL in HK, you have all these countries passing their judgement, talking about oppression/repression/human rights. Human rights are about Human life, right? 100K deaths is not the ultimate violation of human rights?

Failed GLF policy killed millions, don’t need to argue that. You can call them “Victims of Communism”. For them, they get a memorial in Washington DC.

What will the 100K+ dead in the USA get? Maybe Mike Pompeo is going to dedicate his next cheeseburger to them?

CCP didn’t kill one person in HK.

Doesn't stop them from calling it a genocide:

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SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well that's sort of what happens in a democracy - people are free to vote and associate. It's not like China doesn't take advantage of that itself in other countries, such as when Chinese ambassadors have the opportunity to write opinion pieces in leading newspapers. That's also not a right afforded to US, UK or other European ambassadors unless they're praising China. Or setting up the Confucius Institutes to promote a positive image of Chinese policies and ideas. Or even helping organise overseas Chinese students to attend pro-China rallies/counter-demonstrate against anti-CCP protests.

If the CCP doesn't like what groups in Hong Kong were/are doing, it should have forgone all the conveniences and freedoms of the democratic world and just operated using the same policies as it has at home.



Sure, but the point remains - a directly-elected Chief Executive would have been highly unlikely to pick fights with Beijing or sought to antagonise it for no reason, because it would have pleased only a small number of people and worried a much larger group.

I don't want to sound like a broken record player, but the CCP's refusal to impliment full democracy in Hong Kong is probably the key reason for an increase in the number of groups operating in the city opposed to the CCP. For the first 10 years after the handover, bar a few small groups the most HK did to "oppose" the CCP was to commemorate the 1989 Beijing massacres. If the CCP had kept its promises (and done so say by 2010 - in time for the 2012 elections), there simply wouldn't be nearly as much hostility towards it as there is now. Any political analyst worth their salt could have told the CCP that they were on a road to create the circumstances they said they wanted to avoid at all costs.



I think the CCP has a very thin skin and is too used to getting its own way. Governments across the world have to deal with this sort of thing on a daily basis. Plenty are able to do so without silencing people via the law - e.g. ignoring the smaller groups, putting out their own information to counter negative coverage, negotiation & consultation where the people in question may have a point, supporting groups that foster a positive message, lawsuits in the most outrageous claims, etc.

For example, if the CCP was embarrassed by books that exposed how many of the top leadership used their positions to enrich themselves, the answer wasn't to intimidiate the people that wrote or published them but to take real action against corruption (rather than use purges as a tool against political opponents). Public employees are still woefully paid in so many situations that it actively encourages them to be corrupt in one way or another, whether it's to do private work off the books, accept bribes or use connections for themselves and their families. A proper anti-corruption drive coupled with wage increases would help China.
Yea no, it's been 30 years since the fall of the Soviets and the color revolutions have not stopped. The HK insurgents were openly using such tactics and should have all been arrested on day one.

Pro Westerners seem to think that nobody notices the long list of failed "democratic" revolutions that have only trashed sovereign states and benefited the US. It is a textbook tactic to turn the discussion from the actual acts of treason into a pointless debate on" human rights".

Focus on the treason.

Focus on the collaboration with American politicians.

Focus on the coordination between HK, the lying Western media, and the shadow money.
 

KYli

Senior Member
When I first heard about GLF, the West claimed between 3-5 millions deaths due to famine. A few years later, the number is 10 millions, then 30 millions, then 50 millions, lately between 80 millions to 100 millions deaths. I won't deny there are many people dead due to famine but it is pure propaganda to say there are between 80 and 1000 millions deaths during GLF. However, after lies repeat so many times, nobody bothers to question it. Most Western media nowsadays quote 80 millions whenever they bring up GLF and it has become an indisputable fact for them even though we all know that is not possible.
 
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