Hong-Kong Protests


KYli

Senior Member
We finally got to the bottom of this.

I think a large vocal MINORITY is for change away from CCP China come what may. (let's say 1/3. Is not scientific, just for the sake of argument). Another 1/3 want to keep status quo, but will be happy/ok to go along.

So this still leave a sizable minority 1/3 not happy (approx 2.3 million people).

BUT even if this were so, and the west MSM are trying to say from this evidence, Hong Kongers wants independence, blah, blah.

But what these MSM delibreatly avoide to mention is....... that Hong Kong is a sovereign territory of China (CCP or KMT) recognised the world over without exception!

The system of governance is upto that sovereign country! Saying they demand and deserve independence because of majority of people wish it is absurd!

It is no difference to say, London have a labour mayor and its counter to the governing party of the country, and therefore they should have independence if they so wish it!

One has to look at example of Catalan in Spain to see how the MSM are not advacating independence for catalan siting its unconstitutional! Lol.

Well in Hong Kong, it is also unconstitutional! Butvit don't stop the MSM and USA voicing their support for the thugs!
If push comes to shove, the central government could intervene. The problem is many in Pro-Dems camp thinks that they could force the central government to cave. Many Hong Kongers overthink their importance to China. When it comes down to sovereignty, the central government would take a hard line no matter what.

After the mess in HK, I just don't see how the central government would even allow more leeway for direct election. I am pretty sure that the central government has lost faith in HK and is moving many functions of HK to other places. The central government has been mentioning article 23 in more frequency. The future of HK is bleak.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
If push comes to shove, the central government could intervene. The problem is many in Pro-Dems camp thinks that they could force the central government to cave. Many Hong Kongers overthink their importance to China. When it comes down to sovereignty, the central government would take a hard line no matter what.

After the mess in HK, I just don't see how the central government would even allow more leeway for direct election. I am pretty sure that the central government has lost faith in HK and is moving many functions of HK to other places. The central government has been mentioning article 23 in more frequency. The future of HK is bleak.
I agree that "direct election" is certainly gone in the foreseeable future, if not gone forever. Forcing 23 on HK by NPC is possible. A cleansing of all three branches according 23 could happen thereafter.

The whole mess started as "pro-dem" wanted "true" direct election, everything else is just cover. Their version and time-table of implementing direct election is to remove Central government from the process of selecting CE who would then NOT responsible or answerable to Beijing in any way. The other thing they fought for is "juridical independence" exemplified by the HK high court's attempt to interpret the Basic Law's clause that NPC has declared to withhold exclusive authority, that is essentially a coup d'etat. If the two efforts succeeded HK would have become de facto independent, a region whose legislators, executives and judges answering to no other authorities outside of its geographical area.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
I said that voting result indicates "majority of the HK support the rioters" but you keep saying "majority of the HK support violence" which isn't my words.
So in your view, rioters are not necessarily violent? When the rioters beat people to unconscious, bleeding bodies, throw flaming petrol bombs, or destroy a metro station, that isn't violent? (When they don't do that, or something as destructive, then most people won't call them rioters.) If that is your view, we have nothing more to discuss, as you are clearly not living in the real world.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just a little nik-pick. Hong Kong is more than just an Island. The Island part of Hong Kong only comprise approx 20% of the total land area!
I think most of the wealth (and political power) of Hong Kong is concentrated in the island. That is why I continue to call Hong Kong an island.
 

KYli

Senior Member
So in your view, rioters are not necessarily violent? When the rioters beat people to unconscious, bleeding bodies, throw flaming petrol bombs, or destroy a metro station, that isn't violent? (When they don't do that, or something as destructive, then most people won't call them rioters.) If that is your view, we have nothing more to discuss, as you are clearly not living in the real world.
Do you even read what I said? Not sure how would you jump to this absurd conclusion. From our perspective and view, rioters of course are violent. Any reasonable or not bias people would agree that the rioters are violent.

But that is what we see things not what the pan-Dems camp supporters see things. Most pan-Dems camp supporters have been brainwashed by the oppositions, rioters, and the media to think otherwise. They see things differently and justify violence in many ways and forms.(For the sake of no more confusion, majority of the HK people support the rioters but some of them condone violence and some of them don't condone violence.) Some pan-Dems camp supporters who don't condone violence but still choose to support the rioters for various reasons.

So for those who don't condone violence, what excuses they give to justify the violence?
1. The whole thing is stage. (Complete denial, if there is violence, then it is a show or fake.)
2. Those in black are actually police officers. (projection of blame, blame-shifting, fake news to sow confusion)
3. The police are more brutal, and the HK government is a tyranny. So violence might not be acceptable but at least understandable and justifiable.(The other side is at fault.)(fake news to sow hatred such as fabricated story of police killings at Prince Edward Station and to reinforce the notion that the police are the bad guys).
4. It is for the greater goods. A necessities for revolution and the only mean to fight back a tyranny(the hk government and the police) (Justification and glorification).
 
Hong Kong protests test Beijing's 'foreign meddling' narrative
a long one, I guess the memo is

"Hong Kong's experience of one country, two systems, the Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen has suggested, has shown that authoritarianism and democracy cannot coexist."
 
earlier today I wondered if "cockroaches" (LOL!) wouldn't protest this weekend, now see
Hong Kong protests: restaurants spray-painted and diners harassed in ‘Christmas shopping’ action in leading malls
  • Protesters, many of whom were masked and wearing black, staged rallies at a number of popular malls
  • Riot police subdue at least two people in Telford Plaza mall

so follow the link
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
if interested
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
If push comes to shove, the central government could intervene. The problem is many in Pro-Dems camp thinks that they could force the central government to cave. Many Hong Kongers overthink their importance to China. When it comes down to sovereignty, the central government would take a hard line no matter what.

After the mess in HK, I just don't see how the central government would even allow more leeway for direct election. I am pretty sure that the central government has lost faith in HK and is moving many functions of HK to other places. The central government has been mentioning article 23 in more frequency. The future of HK is bleak.
Yes it's very sad for me to say this. The importance of Hong Kong has diminish significantly due to China's rise. The GDP of Hong Kong was approx 1/6 of China's at the time of the handover. It is now approx 1/30.

The only importance Hong Kong plays is now in geopolitics. And that is only because of foreigners using it as such. Often using it as a pawn in the grand scheme of things!

It is sad that the pan-dem refuses to see that they are being played. And thinks their antics WILL enticed the foreigners in to help them. They are doomed to failure, as no foreign forces, even one as powerful as the USA would sacrifice their sons and daughters for their cause!

All these bills they are passing it's just smoke and mirrors. As it is now, the foreigners will play up to their cause and give a false impression the foreginers will come to their aid anytime soon. But as soon as Trump gets his trade deal done. They will be dropped like a led zepplin. Quicker these thugs reliase this the better it is for everyone.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
I think the simple reality is that many nominally loyal, law abiding and peace loving Hong Kongers are prepared to tolerate, if not tacitly support the violence, in the hope that there genuine grievances will be attended too by LegCo as the price of buying back their support.

This is why I say that HK needs a proper leader and that a Technocrat like Lam is hopelessly out of her depth. It needs someone who knows how to play politics and someone who will set up an public inquiry, but make sure it remains their circus and focus's on the wrong doings of the protestors and identifying their overseas supporters.

Carrie sadly comes across like a hopeless infant teacher trying to control a class that is totally out of control.
Btw I suspect the UK General Election result is bad news for the rioters as Boris will need a post brexit trade deal with China, far more than he needs a protest movement in HK!
 

Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
FB_IMG_1576431332737.jpg FB_IMG_1576431332737.jpg FB_IMG_1576431332737.jpg 3500.jpg Compare & contrast.

Media reports from today's CGTN and GUARDIAN covering today's event in Hong Kong.


Noticed CGTN showing wanton destruction and intemidaton. (Noticed the thugs trying to punch a window out and hurt his hand at 17 seconds in. Lol wimp)!

Now look at the report from GUARDIAN. It sounds as if it's all the police's fault for being heavy handed and easy with the tear gas! Even the front picture show a "peaceful protestor" being trampled on "unreasonably" by the police as the paper trying to suggest.

Hong Kong violence breaks out again in shopping centres
Police make arrests and use pepper spray as flashmobs and vandalism break out

3500.jpg


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