Hong-Kong Protests


kind of fallout stories:

HR fallout (reportedly the Mandarin, Cantonese speakers avoiding each other in the lunch room, etc.)
Hong Kong offices become new battleground in protests
Tensions strain relations between pro and anti-government staff in city’s trading rooms
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economic fallout
Is patience wearing thin for foreign firms in Hong Kong after months of protests?
  • Business leader warns contingency plans are being made in case violence flares again in troubled city
  • Competition from rival cities could lead to loss of talent in years ahead
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PiSigma

"the engineer"
Seriously, can the mods @Deino @seigecrossbow @Bltizo ask the copy paste articles with heading to stop. There is zero contribution to the thread, and no opinion or discussion of the article itself. And all the articles are just MSM bs anyway.

These posts essentially break the "no one liner rule".
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
Seriously, can the mods @Deino @seigecrossbow @Bltizo ask the copy paste articles with heading to stop. There is zero contribution to the thread, and no opinion or discussion of the article itself. And all the articles are just MSM bs anyway.

These posts essentially break the "no one liner rule".
This is what I've been saying, absolutely no debate, no analysis, No evaluation of any kind. And what's worse it's just MSM BS that we can access and already decided it's not worth repeating here, especially without any analysis!
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
20 000 thousand person is more than enough to make extreme damage to a 5-10 million city, if they receive supply from a bigger country.

Check whats happened in Syria, the anti Assad forces has few 10 000 man , but it is more than enough to kill 100 000 thousand of civilians .



If HK has weaker connection with China (or it is independent ) , then it can be an option for the Capitol.

But as a starter China has control above the sea around HK, so it is not possible .

Again, the residents of HK are very lucky : )


Russia size and her nuclear arsenal didn't prevented the USA from support Georgia / Ukraine just to cause trouble and so on.
If HK was an independent country, I agree, that is an option for USA. However, the reality is that it isn't, so it's not really applicable.
Your Syria numbers are way off, but I get what you mean, but as above, the nature is totally different. Long story short, not happening.

These protestors can't even pick a leader and somehow they're a fighting force? When the guns come out these protestors will be scurrying back into their holes. It's easy to face the police when you know they're not going to use deadly force. Which country would dare to ship weapons to these protestors which would be an act of war? Is this like how these protestors think they can violently attack people who simply disagree with them while whining the police are being too mean to them? Like China can't easily place a blockade on Hong Kong?
The lack of leadership is clearly a designed strategy. By not having any clear leadership, it prevents any negotiated settlement or political compromise and allowing unrest to continue indefinitely.

With regards to the weapons aspect. I think the bigger issue is that doing that would really create a huge conflagration and immolate the entire region's economy, not just HK, and even if no other countries were dragged into an armed conflict.

The protesters definitely choose very cowardly methods. As you said, police have only used "deadly" force on a few occasions, and even then the level of lethality is debatable since no one has been killed and multiple shots have never been fired at a "victim". Again, this is part of the strategy on the part of the opposition leadership. It is a win-win situation for them. If police were to kill someone, their propaganda engines would go full tilt in bestowing martyrhood to the dead (they have already done so even when police have no direct connection to the deaths, or even just make up victims). Any regular police retaliation is characterized as "brutality" or "excessive force". They take videos of police punching or tackling subjects as "proof" of this, as if those people were just strolling through the park or handing sandwiches out to the homeless.

When you read military forums, you always hear how training makes a difference. I read comments to articles on Hong Kong and I see a lot of commenters talk as if these violent protestors are equivalent to special forces. Have you seen the videos of these protestors fighting? It's a bunch of whimpy nerds rioting. I'll give you the one thing alone they do which why they will lose. Give them an assault rifle but they will still find it necessary to carry an umbrella in the other hand. Yeah they don't need training and they'll beat the PLA?
I think HK tends to cultivate "wimpiness" in general. There are no local sports stars to look up to, there is no military to join, the history has been deliberately surppressed since British times. That's why its so important for the western media to play them up so heroically, I think the hope is that at least if they are not physically strong, they can grow enough backbone to continue radical action when needed.

Yes think civil war because everyone knows the West ain't going to help but give lip service. These protestors start killing people just for disagreeing with them and that's what's going to happen if they had weapons and somehow people think China has to stay out of China. These protestors are encouraging war between China and the West. And their side is about peace? These Hong Kongers believe in children's fairy tales where they think their white knights, the West, will come to save the damsels (themselves) in distress. Does the damsel have oil? Is the damsel holding unique strategic territory that gives the US control over the region? What have Hong Kongers done for the world that they think others countries' soldiers dying for them is worth saving them? Are Hong Kongers notorious for their humanitarian efforts around the world? The US just abandoned the Kurds who helped them fight ISIS and leave them to be slaughtered by other US allies. And somehow these arrogant Hong Kongers think the West should send in their soldiers to die for Hong Kongers that have done nothing for anyone but themselves? Let's not forget the possibility of nuclear war. I'm sure they're okay with the US nuking China for them. What about all the US cities burning in a nuclear fire? All those lives lost just because Hong Kongers think they're that important. Of course the reality is that's not going to happen but Hong Kongers think it will and they don't have one thought about the consequences. Yeah, civil war... please, and then China will have an excuse... What is the US going to do? Go to war...?
The core issue is that "democracy" and "freedom" are no longer concepts in the current geopolitical landscape, rather they are more like religious dogma used by America and allies to implement their neo-colonialist doctrine. You mentioned yourself that there is a belief that a democratically elected government would automatically align itself with American interests. Even when the proof to the contrary is huge (Putin's Russia), this is dismissed as some kind of aberration. The extent to which people will worship this religion is limitless.

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- Here is an article which headlines "Trump's policy is literally blood for oil". Trump's policy? Was this not the policy of multiple presidents? Are we imagining that Obama had Libya's best interests at heart when he decapitated the government?

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Two articles, 2 different years. Same writer, same topic. Democracy good (does not actually explain how it would help solve HK's non-political issues), China bad. On top of this, he mentions "insidious mainlandization" in one article, and "Mandarin in the streets" in the other. This level of xenophobia would be highly controversial in Western countries, but ignored when it comes to China. These feelings are fine because they shows great piety.

Survey reveals widening rift between generations of Hongkongers over anti-government protests
  • Some 42 per cent of young Hongkongers surveyed frequently or occasionally argued with their parents over past few months, ‘current affairs’ being the major provocation
  • Youngsters ranked freedoms as the most important core value, while their parents considered social stability above all
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my comment:

those "aged between 18 and 29" will be aged 46 -- 58 in 2047 (don't nitpick someone might be 59 or something),

those "aged between 54 and 73" will be aged 82 -- 101 in 2047
Hong Kong and China were not great places when those people aged 54 and 73 were 18 and 29.
You mentioned Xinjiang camps, but that's a strawman argument.

Why should older people support the younger people destroying everything they built because they don't like the government?
Many older folks did not like the colonial government, but they still went out to make a good life and strong city.
Many of the younger people argue that they don't need a good economy as long as they have "freedom", so they are okay with trashing the university campus or burning subway stations.
The older people actually remember what it was like to be poor. Cleanliness was not great in old Hong Kong. Did you see this link before?
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There used to be rat disposal bins on lamp posts, that is one of the most disgusting things I ever heard of. Older people don't want the economy to go backwards like that.
 

vincent

Senior Member
Why should older people support the younger people destroying everything they built because they don't like the government?
Many older folks did not like the colonial government, but they still went out to make a good life and strong city.
Many of the younger people argue that they don't need a good economy as long as they have "freedom", so they are okay with trashing the university campus or burning subway stations.
The older people actually remember what it was like to be poor. Cleanliness was not great in old Hong Kong. Did you see this link before?
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There used to be rat disposal bins on lamp posts, that is one of the most disgusting things I ever heard of. Older people don't want the economy to go backwards like that.
My uncle who lived in HK in the 70's had to save up tap water because it was only available a few days a week.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
One way to control a population is by keeping them poor. That's why the British kept Hong Kong making rubber dog poop until they knew they had to hand Hong Kong back to China. They would still be making rubber dog poop if they were still under the control of the British. Why do I use rubber dog poop? That's from Top Gun but just replace poop for the appropiate term used in the movie. But it showed how the West saw Hong Kong and luxury and wealth is actually something new in context of the truth.
 

KYli

Junior Member
One way to control a population is by keeping them poor. That's why the British kept Hong Kong making rubber dog poop until they knew they had to hand Hong Kong back to China. They would still be making rubber dog poop if they were still under the control of the British. Why do I use rubber dog poop? That's from Top Gun but just replace poop for the appropiate term used in the movie. But it showed how the West saw Hong Kong and luxury and wealth is actually something new in context of the truth.
It is true that the British never really cared about Hong Kong. But the successes of HK are due to circumstances such as China was isolated back then and many wealthy businessmen or elites in China were fleeing China due to WWII, Civic War, or Cultural Revolution.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
However, I would say the Soviets is a unique case. It's very rarely we see an economy collapsed so deep and so fast!
The Soviet example proves that even heavy brainwashing won't last forever. I doubt Hong Kong will be different.

In addition, mainland cities will be rising while Hong Kong's economic level will be falling. So the mainland will be passing the island sooner than you may think. Already, Shenzhen's economy is larger than Hong Kong's.


So as I can't foresee Hong Kong will repeat the Soviets experience anytime soon.
Depends on what you mean by "soon". There's more than 27 years to 2047. If the mainland continued to grow at 6% a year, its economy would be almost five times larger at that time than now. Even if the growth rate slowed to 3 percent a year, the mainland's economy would be 2.2 times larger in 27 years. Hong Kong would be far behind by then.


These radicals having had over 20 years of radicalisation will not abandon their cause like those people from the Soviets times!
There will always be die hards and CIA-paid rioters. They're welcome to ruin Hong Kong.
 

AssassinsMace

Brigadier
It is true that the British never really cared about Hong Kong. But the successes of HK are due to circumstances such as China was isolated back then and many wealthy businessmen or elites in China were fleeing China due to WWII, Civic War, or Cultural Revolution.

It was only until the British knew they had to hand Hong Kong back to China was when they released their stranglehold on Hong Kong more than they ever did. Even they granted their faux democracy when before there was none and it became the financial city it has become. Before, Hong Kong was no different from the reputation of Shenzhen a decade ago. All those rich people that fled the communist to Hong Kong were no different from the Hos of Macau. Rich by corruption. They were no different from the warlords that served whichever colonial master that was in control at the time. They were only rich because the British allowed them to be rich or they fled somewhere else.

Here in the US Americans are free to say their racist beliefs about Asians because they don't fear any repercussions. Over in Hong Kong, the colonialists are the minority. Things can turn south very quickly and that's why they allowed some Chinese to be rich just as along as they served British interests and not work against them.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can spin all you want but your observation is wrong and that is a fact. All of your previous argument is based upon a simple observation that "nearly all of them have NOT been showing up in recent protests."
Not all my previous arguments were based on noting recent drops in protester numbers. I have always questioned your position that a majority of the Hong Kong population is supporting the thugs. For example, I have questioned your assertion that the election validates the cockroaches.


As this observation has proven wrong, then you don't have anything to support your argument.
How have I been proven wrong? The 12/8 demonstration was actually smaller than some previous protests. As I have been saying, lots of people are NOT showing up any more.


As for 97% of the Hkers reject violence, you seriously think this statement can hold any water. This kind of statement only makes you look bad.
How does it make me look bad? The police estimated that 183,000 people showed up. If this estimate is closer to the truth than the very likely inflated figure of 800,000. can you deny that 97% of Hong Kong's population did NOT participate in the Dec 8 demonstration? If you think that the 3% who did show up can somehow represent a majority of the Hong Kong population, you are spreading cockroach propaganda.

(Even the inflated figure of 800,000 means that 89% of the population didn't participate on Dec 8. How is that anywhere close to a majority?)
 
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