Hong-Kong Protests


Gatekeeper

Major
Registered Member
So it looks like our intuition was right, Hong Kong was a pawn in the trade war with the US after all. If the extract from Kimberly Guilfoyle is anything to go by.

GUILFOYLE: Hong Kong Is Critical To US Effort To Secure A Trade Deal With China

"President Trump knows that Hong Kong needs the backing of the United States in order to maintain its independence. But he also knows that standing with Hong Kong is another lever to pull in his negotiations with Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party.

By offering Hong Kong official tools of support, President Trump has broadened the trade dispute in accordance with American interests, while also paving the way towards a peace

President Trump knows that continuing to export the livelihoods of millions of Americans to China is neither desirable nor tenable. We need a mutually beneficial relationship with China that brings opportunity back to the American heartland. With a new deal that addresses structural challenges the Chinese economy poses to American workers, President Trump hopes to do just that, and pressuring the Chinese government with Hong Kong only makes that task easier.

Throughout negotiations, the Chinese have been reluctant to get a deal over the line, walking away from agreed upon terms several times. By supporting Hong Kong, President Trump is showing the Chinese Communist Party that he will not sit idly by while they jerk trade negotiations around".

Kimberly Guilfoyle (@KimGuilfoyle) is a senior adviser to Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Not really, many factions within the CCP believe that China should still be binding its time and laying low. Moreover, China should be submissive towards the US. China’s foreign policy was long influenced by Deng Xiaoping's doctrine, “hide your strength and bide your time”. Don't underestimate the numbers of top leaders within CCP that still wanted to cave in the trade war.

Mr. Xi believes it is time for China to take center stage in the world. Many of his policies such as South China sea, belt road initiatives, Xinjiang, and Asia Infrastructure Bank have contradicted Deng Xiaoping's doctrine. Chaos in HK and slowdown in economy would have made Xi look weak and vulnerable. I don't believe there could be a coup but many tycoons in HK have strong ties with many top leaders in China so Jimmy Lai might think there is a chance.

I would like to point out Deng's doctrine is not only 韬光养晦(hide your strength and bide your time) but also 有所作为(aim to achieve something big).
The assumption that Xi has departed "too early" from Deng's doctrine is just a blind wishful thinking based on the assumption that there is factions in CCP strong enough to alter the course.

There are different opinions within CCP, but anyone forming a faction that oppose the decision that has been taken by the majority is a rebelling and certainly ended up in prison for life. We have good examples, many of them. Effectively, the party is well unified.

It is a mistake to assume that it was Xi who turned policy. Many of his acts are continuation from Hu Jintao, just not in that name.
  • Asia Infrastructure Bank, was proposed in 2009 under Hu Jintao's administration.
  • OBOR was the continuation and expansion of "great development of the west" under Hu Jintao. "great development of the west" was to build up infrastructure of China's west. Then what you may ask. Of course the natural next step is to expand that further west.
  • Xi is tough on Xinjing, but Hu was the one who crashed riot in Lahsa. Same iron-fist, same policy.
Did Xi contradicts Deng's doctrine by doing something more assertive? No, because as you as said, Deng's doctrine includes "doing" as well. It is only the timing to be debated. Even that, it was not Xi but Hu from 2008 began turning assertive. But because that was the last 2 years of his time and only the beginning, it did not generate much noise.

The whole thing should have told everyone two things.
  • CPC is not a personal party, it is a team leading party that peruses agenda over decades. Hoping one individual act favorably (to some direction) is just naive.
  • There are different opinions within, but there is no factions, unlike the western parties (strictly speaking, CPC does not see western political parties as real parties).
A background knowledge in Chinese political norm, faction-ism (literally partisan struggle 党争) was always something the state will try to exterminate. Negative example are the Song dynasty and Ming dynasty, which became part of text book to later Emperors. Party (党) as a western imported terminology is nothing the Chinese favor, China only kept the word but has since given Chinese meaning.
 

KYli

Senior Member
The assumption that Xi has departed "too early" from Deng's doctrine is just a blind wishful thinking based on the assumption that there is factions in CCP strong enough to alter the course.

There are different opinions within CCP, but anyone forming a faction that oppose the decision that has been taken by the majority is a rebelling and certainly ended up in prison for life. We have good examples, many of them. Effectively, the party is well unified.

It is a mistake to assume that it was Xi who turned policy. Many of his acts are continuation from Hu Jintao, just not in that name.
  • Asia Infrastructure Bank, was proposed in 2009 under Hu Jintao's administration.
  • OBOR was the continuation and expansion of "great development of the west" under Hu Jintao. "great development of the west" was to build up infrastructure of China's west. Then what you may ask. Of course the natural next step is to expand that further west.
  • Xi is tough on Xinjing, but Hu was the one who crashed riot in Lahsa. Same iron-fist, same policy.
Did Xi contradicts Deng's doctrine by doing something more assertive? No, because as you as said, Deng's doctrine includes "doing" as well. It is only the timing to be debated. Even that, it was not Xi but Hu from 2008 began turning assertive. But because that was the last 2 years of his time and only the beginning, it did not generate much noise.

The whole thing should have told everyone two things.
  • CPC is not a personal party, it is a team leading party that peruses agenda over decades. Hoping one individual act favorably (to some direction) is just naive.
  • There are different opinions within, but there is no factions, unlike the western parties (strictly speaking, CPC does not see western political parties as real parties).
A background knowledge in Chinese political norm, faction-ism (literally partisan struggle 党争) was always something the state will try to exterminate. Negative example are the Song dynasty and Ming dynasty, which became part of text book to later Emperors. Party (党) as a western imported terminology is nothing the Chinese favor, China only kept the word but has since given Chinese meaning.
From my perspective, Xi departed or not departed from Deng's Doctrine isn't that big a deal. As for factions, there are no ideological factions within the party that I know of. That doesn't mean there are no factions and different in interests.

Xi is portrayed as a strongman and to some extent a dictator(Bloomberg's debacle). In the last few years, western media have intensified their attacks on China in OBOR, trade wars, HK and Xinjiang. I can sense that even in China there seems to be people feel that Xi is tightened control of many things. We can argue that it isn't true but to some people these are what they see or what they brainwashed themselves to see. Jimmy Lai and his friends don't see things from our angle so they come to a different conclusion. From Jimmy Lai's perspective, Xi is vulnerable and he senses opportunity.
 

Skywatcher

Senior Member
Good analysis! And yes, the British had planted the seeds of this long time ago. Noticed though, the British is harping on about democracy only just before their rule comes to an end! Mmmm!!!

See this clip about, (and for those who don't speak cantonese) the speaker mentioned two things of importance.

1st, he said, when ever Joshua Wong and his backers and the MSM keeps on about Hong Kong's lack of freedom! And portrait an image of Hong Kongers living in China akin to 1984 orwellian type of society!

Yet no one noticed or mentioned, how much FREEDOM Joshua and his cohorts have by flying around the world to garnish support from western nations. Or that they come and go within Hong Kong to canvass for votes with the types of freedom some western nations can only dream about!

The speaker also said the riots of the 60s, he said of the people that took part in that riots all got criminal records and as such are banned from government post and jobs until 97, when China gave them armistice!

Sorry. It said the file is too big to up load
The poll was also commissioned by a group with a vested interest in having the poll produce a result in one direction.
 

KYli

Senior Member
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Police seized gun that suspected was planned to use at rally in Tin Hau to cause chaos
警方在天后搜獲真槍疑遊行集會製造混亂

Senior Police Superintendent Li Guihua of the Organized Crime and Triad Investigation Division of the Police said that yesterday, based on intelligence, he raided 11 locations in Hong Kong, arrested 8 men, 3 women and 11 people. He also seized a pistol for the first time. It is suspected that someone planned to use in a rally to cause confusion. Li Guihua said that the arrested person was suspected of having participated in an attack on Mong Kok Police Station with petrol bombs in October, and may also plan to create chaos at the rally, firing police officers or shooting police officers. Police believe that one area of the street in Wan Chai was the assembly point of the operation. Two bullet-proof jackets were found, and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol was found in Houhou with good launching ability. Four magazines and 105 rounds of ammunition were also found, as well as weapons such as sabers. Police also found a large number of fireworks and nine sticks in Tsuen Wan.

警方有組織罪案及三合會調查科高級警司李桂華表示,昨日根據情報在全港11個地點突擊搜捕,拘捕8男3女共11人,並首次搜獲手槍,懷疑有人計劃在集會遊行製造混亂。李桂華表示,被捕人涉嫌在十月曾參與用汽油彈攻擊旺角警署的行動,又可能計劃在集會製造混亂,射擊警員或嫁禍警員開槍。警方相信灣仔克街一處是行動集合點,發現兩件避彈衣,又在天后發現一枝9mm半自動手槍,有良好發射能力,又發現4個彈盒及105發子彈,以及軍刀等武器。警方又在荃灣發現大量爆竹煙花及九枝伸縮棍。
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
And you keep repeating the same thing again and again and refuse to answer even a simple question.
What question?

You think I am repeating, but that is only because you keep attempting to slide around the fundamental fact that many people are no longer showing up for the demonstrations-cum-riots. You do your utmost to excuse that inconvenient observation, attempting despite that to assert that most Hong Kongers still support the cockroaches, and I laugh in your face.


And your conclusion is based upon a mere observation that there are less people at the protests.
What else is evidence but observation? If you think observations are worth little, then you deny all legal proceedings, all judgement, all science.

Large numbers of people are no longer showing up. This fact is trivial only if one is being ironic.


Let me repeat a simple fact again. The pan-Dems camp won the election. The pan-Dems camp still supported the rioters.
But as I have said many times, the election does not prove that the majority of Hong Kongers support the cockroaches. You keep attempting to assert that, and I keep demonstrating that your logic is faulty.


The riots will continue.
Oh, I have little doubt the riots will continue to happen, as long as the CIA can pay the cockroaches. I am simply saying that most Hong Kongers hate the violence.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
I do get a feeling though that Beijing is looking at Hong Kong and thinking Taiwan. In that sense, The West may well be revealing decades worth of planning and network building in a scenario that is not really paying off. Politically Hong Kong is quarantined and there is no danger of the infection spreading to the mainland.
Hong Kong is then a lab rat and Beijing is watching closely as to how the infection spreads within its host.
That is an interesting point. You could be right. The CIA, MI6, or other dirty tricks organizations in the West may have been planning the riots for when Hong Kong returns fully to the mainland. But by having the riots now, twenty-seven years too soon, the dirty tricksters are prematurely revealing their plans and giving the mainland practice in countering them. The impatience is very like Trump.


Sadly too much to be able to post about at present, but given the role played by the UK in all this, the Chinese way well like to take a UK example to compare with Hong Kong. I am think specifically of Northern Ireland and the Troubles. All the ingredients for rival sectarian paramilitaries are there, simply substitute 1C2S for the Good Friday Agreement and LegCo for Stormont and you should be able to work out where I am coming from. In short that the Bullet and the Ballot Box is a great slogan but impossible to turn into policy, once you are elected.
Indeed. The UK may be attempting to replicate the Northern Ireland pattern. They are definitely attempting to make religion as important and divisive in Hong Kong as it is in Northern Ireland, but I do not think they are very successful. Religious feeling is too weak in HK.
 
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from inside of
Pro-Beijingers want Hong Kong district council elections recount and claim vote was ‘unfair and not transparent’
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"Themed “Loving the country, safeguarding Hong Kong”, the rally started with the crowd facing north and singing the national anthem. Chinese flags were distributed at the scene, turning the area into a sea of red.


Pro-establishment activists believe the results of the district council elections are tainted. Photo: Reuters"
 

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