Hong-Kong Protests

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Most of the rioters are hoping that the second scenario would occur. Like other members said for the brainwashed radicals "If I don't get my way, no one will get his/her as well." But for some one like Jimmy Lai, he has a more realistic expectation. Jimmy Lai knew that President Xi is under tremendous pressure due to the Xinjiang, trade wars, and now Hong Kong. He thought that if he could force the central government to send in the military, then a worldwide(western) sanctions would cripple the Chinese economy. Jimmy Lai is hoping that other factions with CCP would force Xi to step down and a more moderate leader within CCP would assume control. As long as it isn't Xi, Jimmy Lai and many elites in HK think that they could coordinate with the fellow liberals in China to bring down the CCP like they were doing in the last few decades. They think they come close of weakening the CCP before Xi assumed the role of president.

Isn’t that a very unrealistic expectation?

If the economy actually comes under pressure, the next election will likely bring a much more hardline President, not the reverse.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Maybe because I'm in education, so am more sensitive when I see things like this. Now if this was me doing this in my college in the UK, or anywhere in the western world. Men in black would be round to take me away before I even got a chance to post this all over the internet! And righly so!

So why is it he's allowed, and it seem to everyone in the MSM, this is ok behaviour?

View attachment 55741

In case, anyone don't see anything wrong with this. It is the five finger statement representing the 5 demands! So it is a political statement in the school!
Some school in China should reply back with a photo of everyone giving them a 1 fingered-gesture LOL
 

KYli

Brigadier
Isn’t that a very unrealistic expectation?

If the economy actually comes under pressure, the next election will likely bring a much more hardline President, not the reverse.

Not really, many factions within the CCP believe that China should still be binding its time and laying low. Moreover, China should be submissive towards the US. China’s foreign policy was long influenced by Deng Xiaoping's doctrine, “hide your strength and bide your time”. Don't underestimate the numbers of top leaders within CCP that still wanted to cave in the trade war.

Mr. Xi believes it is time for China to take center stage in the world. Many of his policies such as South China sea, belt road initiatives, Xinjiang, and Asia Infrastructure Bank have contradicted Deng Xiaoping's doctrine. Chaos in HK and slowdown in economy would have made Xi look weak and vulnerable. I don't believe there could be a coup but many tycoons in HK have strong ties with many top leaders in China so Jimmy Lai might think there is a chance.

I would like to point out Deng's doctrine is not only 韬光养晦(hide your strength and bide your time) but also 有所作为(aim to achieve something big).
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Not really, many factions within the CCP believe that China should still be binding its time and laying low. Moreover, China should be submissive towards the US. China’s foreign policy was long influenced by Deng Xiaoping's doctrine, “hide your strength and bide your time”. Don't underestimate the numbers of top leaders within CCP that still wanted to cave in the trade war.

Mr. Xi believes it is time for China to take center stage in the world. Many of his policies such as South China sea, belt road initiatives, Xinjiang, and Asia Infrastructure Bank have contradicted Deng Xiaoping's doctrine. Chaos in HK and slowdown in economy would have made Xi look weak and vulnerable. I don't believe there could be a coup but many tycoons in HK have strong ties with many top leaders in China so Jimmy Lai might think there is a chance.

I would like to point out Deng's doctrine is not only 韬光养晦(hide your strength and bide your time) but also 有所作为(aim to achieve something big).

Eh if Xi looks weak they’ll elect a guy/girl that makes the country look strong more overtly.

I think you shouldn’t conflate China allowing delaying talks in the trade war with ever having intention to cave. The trade officials aren’t blind, they can see they have a stronger hand that keeps getting better. If that equation doesn’t change, they’ll just keep delaying until they get whatever concessions they want on their secret list. They don’t lose anything from waiting.

Imho the goal of the HK riots is simply economic harassment. America has not been able to put a dent in 98% of the mainland economy, so it tries to damage 2% of China’s HK economy instead.

They want low intensity terrorism to continue, maybe hoping for Beijing to waste budget funds on repairs.

They don’t want open war because they can’t win that, and it would create a (much) more aggressive succession administration.

Beijing could counter them by forcing rioters to pay for their damages, and cover up other sums using only HK taxpayer funds.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Eh if Xi looks weak they’ll elect a guy/girl that makes the country look strong more overtly.

I think you shouldn’t conflate China allowing delaying talks in the trade war with ever having intention to cave. The trade officials aren’t blind, they can see they have a stronger hand that keeps getting better. If that equation doesn’t change, they’ll just keep delaying until they get whatever concessions they want on their secret list. They don’t lose anything from waiting.

Imho the goal of the HK riots is simply economic harassment. America has not been able to put a dent in 98% of the mainland economy, so it tries to damage 2% of China’s HK economy instead.

They want low intensity terrorism to continue, maybe hoping for Beijing to waste budget funds on repairs.

They don’t want open war because they can’t win that, and it would create a (much) more aggressive succession administration.

Beijing could counter them by forcing rioters to pay for their damages, and cover up other sums using only HK taxpayer funds.

Jimmy Lai disagreed with you. He and his friends believe that if they could force Xi to step down, then the different factions within CCP would elect a much more moderate leader. I agree that the trade officials did what they asked to do.

I am not worried about HK economy. The HK government has enormous reserves to deal with deficit for many years. Like I said, the goal is hoping the central government would send in the military. Those rioters would flee or hide in their apartments the next day. They have no intention to fight.
 
In the interest of staying within the boundaries of a civilized conservation, I'll choose to overlook your sarcasm. Firstly, you need to understand all the major rallies over the summer are organized by one group called "Civil Human Rights Front". The Civil Human Rights Front is an umbrella organization that comprises of all major oppositions. The recent rallies are not organized by the Civil Human Rights Front. Not all of rallies organized by the Civil Human Rights Front are successful but all the successful rallies are organized by the Civil Human Rights Front.

To expand of what I said before, after six months of protests people do get tired and exhausted. Many of them might have been scared away by the brutality and violence and don't want to directly participating in protests. Many moderate protesters are middle class, college students, elderly, parents, elites, politicians and religious people. These are the people who support the rioters behind the scene. These are the people who provide transport, finance, maintain lennon walls, spread propaganda. These are the people that have too much to lose. So do they still support the protests? Is the movement losing its momentum?

Even foreign media have started to notice of uptick in anger over the protesters but the election result pointed out it isn't so simple. The pan-Dems camp won the election decisively. No matter how much you tried to dismiss and discredit the voting result. The pan-Dem camp won and has the mandate. What did the pan-Dems camp do after they won the elections. They wanted to legalize the lennon walls or at least built a few legal lennon walls. They organized another major rally on 12/8 and threatened more violent protests if the HK government didn't agree to their five demands by 12/8.

So you have it. The pan-Dems camp used its mandate to continue the movement and legitimatize the rioters. The western media and government now can say they are just supporting the will of the HK people. The opposition only needs tens of thousands of people to maintain their violent protests. As long as there are still tens of thousands radicals then the riots continue. Your so called evidence is meaningless. Most people don't need to "directly" support the rioters, as long as most people "directly" or "indirectly" support the rioters the result would be the same.

Let me remind you. Some moderates might not like violence but they have never condemned the rioters.

It is likely that a significant portion of voters voted for pan-Dems in the recent election because the voters were successfully intimidated by the rioters' terrorism, which goes hand in hand with disappointment in the authorities failing to curb the rioting, therefore the pro-establishment camp should advocate a tougher approach against rioters (and their supporters) which there has already been a shift towards with the new police commissioner. It is desirable to have a special investigation of the overall situation including holding rioters, rioting supporters, and the government including the police accountable for their respective roles in the rioting and failure to stop the rioting, the extent of damages to public and private property and persons, and holding rioters and their supporters accountable for the damage caused.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
[Your Civil Human Rights Front excuse]
[Your "people are tired and scared" excuse]

Your excuses are getting weaker. The fundamental fact you are trying to excuse -- a mere "observation" -- is that lots of people are avoiding recent protests. It is difficult to reconcile this fact with your repeated claim that most Hong Kongers are supporting the cockroaches.
 

KYli

Brigadier
It is likely that a significant portion of voters voted for pan-Dems in the recent election because the voters were successfully intimidated by the rioters' terrorism, which goes hand in hand with disappointment in the authorities failing to curb the rioting, therefore the pro-establishment camp should advocate a tougher approach against rioters (and their supporters) which there has already been a shift towards with the new police commissioner. It is desirable to have a special investigation of the overall situation including holding rioters, rioting supporters, and the government including the police accountable for their respective roles in the rioting and failure to stop the rioting, the extent of damages to public and private property and persons, and holding rioters and their supporters accountable for the damage caused.

If you wanted my opinion, I would say that intimidation isn't the main reason but manipulation and denial are.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Your excuses are getting weaker. The fundamental fact you are trying to excuse -- a mere "observation" -- is that lots of people are avoiding recent protests. It is difficult to reconcile this fact with your repeated claim that most Hong Kongers are supporting the cockroaches.

And you keep repeating the same thing again and again and refuse to answer even a simple question. And your conclusion is based upon a mere observation that there are less people at the protests.

I did entertain the possibilities that these rioters were losing supports before the election. After the election, I realized that I am wrong. I am a Hong Konger. I have many relatives and friends in HK. I read, observe, and participate in many Hong Kong forums, FB discussions, or IG. I have come to realize that many people have taken a side in this fight at the early stage. And many of them are willing to lie to themselves in order to justify their position. People choose news that fits their views. Lies such as police dressed as the rioters to commit violence or police killing rioters can be accepted as facts among the pan-Dems supporters because it fits their views. When people are in mode of denial, you can't reason with them. They will make excuses or justify or project the blame towards the police. They would say "what violence", those are police dressing as rioters.

Let me repeat a simple fact again. The pan-Dems camp won the election. The pan-Dems camp still supported the rioters. The riots will continue.

.........................................................................................................................................................

This is funny. I wonder where CIA finds these stable genius.
Three demands we ask of the Taiwan government
!. Citizenship.
2. Jobs.
3. Living accommodations
20191206_828e842b6938dcf8f789eUCtCZY5aSbV.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top