Hong-Kong Protests

solarz

Brigadier
The 1C2S plan was designed to give China a definitive date of recovering HK with a transition period built-in. The error here is that we all thought 1997 was that date, when it was really 2047.

Martin Jacques once remarked that he was astonished to see no difference in HK between June 30th 1997 and July 1st 1997. We know that Beijing left in place all of HK's legal and political infrastructures, with the only difference being the PLA garrison. In everything but name, the recovery of HK has not yet happened.

In that light, I believe what we are seeing right now is foreign forces attempting to trash HK before that recovery can happen.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
I agree with you on all point, Hong Kong is indeed a low hanging fruit. But it is working isn't it?
This remark of yours as much of a cheap shot as Bannon the scammer saying stupid shit like "US military should bomb the Chinese SCS island bases", or "The CCP is reluctant to intervene in HK because HK is more important than mainlanders like to think". These are cheap shots because it takes advantage of the fact that the general public is uneducated in these complex matters and thus will tend to resort to "peasant logic".

The general audience will swallow these cheap shots because these points sounds more straight forward. Compare to these, a more truthful and accurate depiction of the matter will sound much more complex, more convoluted and counter-intuitive to the general public.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
I agree with you on all point, Hong Kong is indeed a low hanging fruit. But it is working isn't it?
This kind of rhetoric reminds me of right-leaning Japanese who insist that they won WW2 against China, but lost to the US. Those people are impossible to talk to, because they are only seeking comfort in rhetoric that fit their own pride and zeal. They don't care about the truth.

Truth matters, because your life and your future depends on it. Falsehood could perhaps grant you momentary comfort, it blinds you and thus deprives you of your life and your future.
 
Rick would want me to comment beyond saying it's interesting, but what should I say when I don't have a smartphone (really):
Apple slammed for approving app that allegedly helps HK rioters
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/7 19:53:40
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I'm really shocked at why so many Western companies seem to be unable to come up with a coherent strategy and stick with it rather than doing things and cancelling them out with opposite things. It's like the companies just can't get everyone on the same page. Apple just formed some partnerships with Chinese suppliers for its parts including the new screens in an effort to get back into the Chinese market and to be seen as a Chinese partner rather than a rival. Now it does this to create hostility against the Chinese market. When this news spreads, Apple will tank further in China. Houston Rockets manager gets political for no effing reason at all, supporting the HK riots on social media to earn his company an immediate ban from the CBA with a nosediving drop in Chinese sponsorship before several team members go online to proclaim their love for China and the manager goes on to issue an apology saying he now knows better. Why?? Did he not foresee what would happen as soon as he wrote that he supported the riots? Why put the team through all this?
 

enroger

New Member
Registered Member
First of all, no.
The CCP will always be better at these than the West. The first reason you would think it is not is because they are already absolutely dominant in their home base the Mainland China, so you don't see them in actions. The second reason you would think it is not is because the CCP has not yet unleashed any of that in Hong Kong yet. The CCP is better at this because the CCP is fundamentally different from the governments/political-parties in the West. They are not the same kind of thing.

The CCP is NOT the same as the Communist Party of the USSR, they are very different. The US can ONLY do their damage in these type of new social warfare in a society that is already deeply westernized AND having an weak and ineffectual government. This would mean that Mainland China is immune to such.
When you say weak and ineffectual government... man I can't agree more. It is so painful to watch HK government make one stupid mistake after another, they are comically incompetent.
But then the HK government is mostly comprised of professional bureaucrats, good at running a government, they are not propagandist, but still...
Problem is CCP can't just mind their own business in home base, if it works once the Americans will try it over and over again. As China's interest expand, good enough at home base is not good enough anymore.
 

Jura

General
I'm really shocked at why so many Western companies seem to be unable to come up with a coherent strategy and stick with it rather than doing things and cancelling them out with opposite things. It's like the companies just can't get everyone on the same page. Apple just formed some partnerships with Chinese suppliers for its parts including the new screens in an effort to get back into the Chinese market and to be seen as a Chinese partner rather than a rival. Now it does this to create hostility against the Chinese market. When this news spreads, Apple will tank further in China. Houston Rockets manager gets political for no effing reason at all, supporting the HK riots on social media to earn his company an immediate ban from the CBA with a nosediving drop in Chinese sponsorship before several team members go online to proclaim their love for China and the manager goes on to issue an apology saying he now knows better. Why?? Did he not foresee what would happen as soon as he wrote that he supported the riots? Why put the team through all this?
what you've said is kind of related to
Global brands better stay away from politics
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/7 21:57:02
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Daryl Morey, general manager of the NBA team the Houston Rockets, has obviously gotten himself into trouble. He tweeted a photo saying "fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong" on Saturday while accompanying his team in Tokyo. The tweet soon set the team's Chinese fans ablaze. It can be imagined how Morey's tweet made them disappointed and furious. Shortly afterward, CCTV sports channel and Tencent sports channel both announced they would suspend broadcasting Rockets' games. Some of the team's Chinese sponsors and business partners also started to suspend cooperation with the Rockets.

The public opinion over the incident in the US is just the opposite. Some American media professionals asked Morey and Rockets to stand firm. Andrew Yang, one of the Democratic presidential candidates, said "the Chinese government banning the Rockets is a terrible move."

The incident shows an expanding worldwide culture gap. Imagine if Morey publicly tweeted support for the Beijing and Hong Kong Special Administrative Region government, would rioters in Hong Kong smash up Rockets' logos in the city?

Commercial and cultural organizations which engage in transnational operations should manage their attitudes and statements over sensitive issues. Impulsive words can easily trigger a backlash.

As the general manager of the Rockets, Morey shoulders the main responsibility for the marketing of his team, but he invited trouble on himself and offended the public on the Chinese mainland. His professional capability is simply too poor.

Some Americans try to link Morey's tweet with so-called "freedom of speech." That is ridiculous. Morey does have the freedom to praise Hong Kong protesters, just like the Chinese fans also have the freedom to abandon the Rockets. The problem is that Morey's freedom is at the expense of Rockets' huge commercial interests, which the team is unwilling to give up. It's a paradox with which Americans are grappling.

Respecting customers is a universal business rule. Morey has to choose between safeguarding his individual freedom of speech and protecting the Rockets' commercial interests by respecting the feelings of Chinese fans. When he opted for the former, the Rockets will have to make a second choice from the perspective of the team.

This incident has nothing to do with the Chinese government. Yang's accusations were a poor tactic of a politician aimed at soliciting attention. The issue first of all is about the market. All Chinese fans are watching how the Rockets and NBA handle this crisis. Whether the team apologizes, in what way, and how it deals with Morey will directly influence fans' enthusiasm for the Rockets and even the NBA.

It's believed the Rockets have felt the intricacy of the matter as the franchise is also facing great ideological pressure from the US side.

How much wisdom the Rockets have to overcome the crisis and minimize the adverse effects will become an interesting test case.

The biggest lesson which can be drawn from the matter is that entities that value commercial interests must make their members speak cautiously. Chinese consumers are not overly sensitive. Wherever it is, touching a raw political nerve is extremely risky. Morey has neither the IQ nor the EQ to talk about political topics. He will become an example of clumsiness on some MBA courses.
 

enroger

New Member
Registered Member
Working at catalyzing chaos in a group that's already prone to it, but we are not contending that. We are contending your point that the USA is far superior in propaganda and mind manipulation, which I said that the current events in Hong Kong cannot serve as evidence for. In Hong Kong, the CIA is simply manifesting the symptoms of a disease that's already there. Beijing's goal now is to use the symptoms to better understand the cure the disease, a task vastly more difficult than attacking a rotten fruit but nonetheless, in line with all of the magnanimous tasks that Beijing has accomplished since 1949.
I hope you're right, CCP better work on this pronto. When I say it is a new kind of warfare I not just making buzz words, US have performed multiple runs of this type of warfare already. If they can't win conventionally, this might just become their new weapon of choice.
 

Bltizo

Moderator
Staff member
Rick would want me to comment beyond saying it's interesting, but what should I say when I don't have a smartphone (really):
Apple slammed for approving app that allegedly helps HK rioters
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/10/7 19:53:40
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Are you trying to attract attention for yourself?

I'm on my phone as well right now and even I can write a short two sentence commentary on this article:

"The global times has written an article criticizing apple for allowing an app which has been said to enable rioters to organize among themselves. Various Chinese users have expressed discontent particularly at the listing of SAR territories as separate from China, but it's yet to be seen what if any action apple may take."

If you posted articles as a smaller percentage of your overall posts, it would also be acceptable to post an article without any personal commentary if appropriate. But the nature of your posts is such that the vast majority are article posts with little to no personal commentary.

Even Solarz's single sentence comment in that article about the HSBC story was fine as at least it summarised what the story was about.

I have no interest to continuously come back to you in this thread, but I think the requests that I and the other active moderators have expressed are very reasonable and it would be appreciated if you abided to them without this facetious sass.
 

enroger

New Member
Registered Member
This kind of rhetoric reminds me of right-leaning Japanese who insist that they won WW2 against China, but lost to the US. Those people are impossible to talk to, because they are only seeking comfort in rhetoric that fit their own pride and zeal. They don't care about the truth.

Truth matters, because your life and your future depends on it. Falsehood could perhaps grant you momentary comfort, it blinds you and thus deprives you of your life and your future.
You might want to read my post carefully before you decide which side I am on.
 
Problem is CCP can't just mind their own business in home base, if it works once the Americans will try it over and over again. As China's interest expand, good enough at home base is not good enough anymore.
Very true, but once again, I think the core issue here is that you are placing Hong Kong on an incorrect level in the hierarchy of things. You are thinking, if the US can defect these young guys even in a part of Chinese territory, China has no chance in the rest of the world. When in actuality, Hong Kong has a terrible illness that made it more susceptible to this than many other parts of the world. In most countries except America's staunch allies, China's popularity is rising. Africans regard China as a worthy new global leader and over the slavery and exploitation brought on by Americans and Europeans. Malaysians are strongly pro-China. Iran, but that's more about the US screwing itself than what China has to do. Germans are saying that the Chinese are more reliable business partners than Americans. Ever-since Trump took office, the effect has been much more pronounced than even what China had expected regarding the global trend of the US losing out and China gaining in the hearts of global citizens.

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China Moves Ahead of U.S. in Global Leadership Survey
By
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Feb. 28, 2019

THE GLOBAL VIEW OF Chinese leadership is now higher than the U.S., according to a newly released survey that also shows the Russia has pulled into a virtual tie with America.

The
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released on Thursday measured opinions in 133 countries of four countries:
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,
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,
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and the
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The poll, conducted in 2018, showed a median approval for U.S. leadership was 31 percent, while 30 percent approve of Russia's leadership. China received a 34 percent approval rating and Germany finished at the top, with a 39 percent approval rating.

The global views of China and Russia rose substantially from the previous year. The 34 percent approval rating for China was the country's highest since 2009. The 30 percent approval rating for Russian leadership was that country's highest since 2008.

The approval ratings for China and Russia rose by at least 10 percentage points from the previous year in more than a dozen countries. Neither the U.S. nor Germany saw such large gains in as many countries. The disapproval ratings for Germany (22 percent), China (28 percent) and Russia (31 percent) were lower than the U.S.

 
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