Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

Bltizo said:

+1
My mother and all her classmates in university at the time went to TAM in 1989 because of the re nao and the solidarity, most of them had no idea what they were actually protesting about.

Although I'll say in this case, the protesters are all bound by an emotional dislike (putting it mildly) for China, and Chinese MLers as well to an extent.
They value their sense of identity, whatever that is. I don't want to say it is snobbery and a sense of superiority towards MLers so as to not offend air superiority and other HKers here, but there is a hierarchy (justified or not) that comes into it.
And of course, "free XYZ from China" is like the fast food of democracy/human rights movements; easily consumable, but very little substance.

But that's why I think, commitment might be a little stronger here than other movements. We'll see how long they can maintain their peaceful presence, especially if the government basically ignores their demands.

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I wonder if Beijing is micromanaging the police response at all. In either case, the authorities have been remarkably lenient.

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I actually really haven't hear anyone mention "mainland Chinese" in this whole movement. It's completely about Beijing, HKSAR(CY Leung), and direct election.

Only so-called mentions of mainland Chinese would be now Phoenix TV spun the headlines to claim it's HK people celebrating October 1st.

Some mainland Chinese climbed the firewall and expressed support, and people were thanking them and loving them and treating them like brothers, and some saying we'll help you guys someday(meaning in a good way)


But yea, this event is totally all about HK people, and I'll say the entire community bonded together. I've never seen HK like this, and even can say people opened up to one another. Also there aren't any mentions of mainland Chinese people too. One can say it's it's family affairs.

But yea can we for now not mention about mainland Chinese or attitudes about mainland Chinese in this thread? I mean, we ain't even talking about them there, so yea that's not involved there.

pla101prc said:

i wonder if the organizers of this this protest had in mind of an endgame, like so many American strategists now insist on as a prerequisite to commit its military. We know for sure that the CCP will not relent, so what do these protesters plan on doing?

If these protesters were banking on their grievance resonating within mainland China, thereby coercing the government into a compromise, they should probably remember that you dont get support from people that you refer to as "grasshoppers" lol.

so i dont know if there is a coherent strategy in place for the protesters.

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The organizers are arrested and gone. The new organizers are the HK public themselves.

As for endgame, I think we're expecting the HKSAR and Beijing gov't to respond in a week. HK can't keep up this disruption for a week. Even a day is already too much.

And I don't think people even thought of mainland China right now. They're waiting for the HKSAR gov't and Beijing for responses.

Equation said:

I agreed with you there, that's the thing I don't get about. Hong Kongers don't have anything to be snobby about in the first place.

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Tthe snobbiness was towards mainland Chinese individuals who are rude. Won't explain too much unless you wanna understand more

Re: Chinese General news resource thread

pla101prc said:

so the protesters are disrupting things for the sake of disrupting things...I cant see how the CCP has any incentive to acquiesce to the protesters' demands? anything they are doing is simply harming Hong Kong itself...i highly doubt an artificial political crisis that resolves nothing will do any good to Hong Kong's economy.

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No not for sake of disrupting. People had been complaining and CY leung had been ignoring completely, literally. Since they keep ignoring the public, then we'll have to catch their attention, and that is by interrupting what matters: money, which is from the Central financial district.

Brumby said:

You have to be a Chinese to understand this. Historically, Hong Kongers generally consider mainland and overseas Chinese to be inferior. I believe this is due to the fact that at least in the past on an economic scale, HK Chinese were ahead of the rest. Just some kind of competitive thing going on within the Chinese community.

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Actually overseas Chinese are viewed alright. I think the true contempt is for the Communist China and not really the people. In the early years(way before the handover), mainland Chinese immigrants were viewed as brethens, industrious, etc. And to consider we donated the most for Sichuan 2008 under the slogan "we share the same blood", you can see it's not the people we hate. It's certain things and behaviours that we can't tolerate that they're doing inside HK, such as taking a sh!t in the middle of the mall and cutting in line.

airsuperiority said:

But yea can we for now not mention about mainland Chinese or attitudes about mainland Chinese in this thread? I mean, we ain't even talking about them there, so yea that's not involved there.

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It's always difficult to trace the lineage of movements, as smaller issues which can cause people to congregate together often get ignored as newer and bigger issues come to the limelight.

Personally I am doubtful to the claim that anti MLer sentiment didn't have a role in this movement, at least at the initial stages. It could be a sample bias of the news and social media posts from preceding years with HKers complaining of MLers (to be fair, much of it I was sympathetic to, especially regarding politeness and public conduct), but I don't think it's a stretch to think it had a preceding role even if right now the angst is explicitly directed at the HK government and beijing

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Also, lack of organization isn't necessarily a good thing, for either the protesters or the authorities -- it means there is no guaranteed means for de escalation and no regulation of the differing opinions within the masses.

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What will happen if a week passes and no compromise is reached or if they don't sate the protester's demands? Everyone knows china isn't going to throw HK away to the masses without some kind of veto power.

airsuperiority said:

The parents permitted them, and even the school boards and university deans permitted it. Even the teacher's foundation supported these movement from the beginning days when high school students decided to step into the streets, to now where teachers went on strike in protest of what the police are doing. I spoke to a math tutor today and asked his thoughts, without voicing mine first. He's also in supportive of what's happening.

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That's an example of the kind of conditioning I mentioned in my previous post.

airsuperiority said:

China has promised to not intervene in HK's political affairs, yet somehow the NPC can say how HK can have its democracy?

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Go read HK's constitution, NPC does have that right as it is the de jure highest legislative authority of HK SAR. All that China has promised is written within the constitution, and Beijing has been pretty good at following the Constitution to the letter. Anything more is fictional.

airsuperiority said:

Civic Square is public space. They decided to barricade it up, and that was what spurred a group to climb inside. And that's not even about the tear gas yet. The tear gas were deployed at the main roads for no reason, without provocation. Everyone watched it with their own eyes. They even fired tear gas onto occupied bridges for no reason. A CNN crew was reporting what's going on when a tear gas was then shot into the crowd. A lot of the protest were filmed with live footage and streaming, and it's these tear gas which caused more people to go into the streets. I even showed a picture earlier of before and after

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You mentioned a reason in your very own paragraph, that people are over running barricades. How can that be no reason? If I were you, my first step would be to stop reading facebook news.

airsuperiority said:

Actually overseas Chinese are viewed alright. I think the true contempt is for the Communist China and not really the people. In the early years(way before the handover), mainland Chinese immigrants were viewed as brethens, industrious, etc. And to consider we donated the most for Sichuan 2008 under the slogan "we share the same blood", you can see it's not the people we hate. It's certain things and behaviours that we can't tolerate that they're doing inside HK, such as taking a sh!t in the middle of the mall and cutting in line.

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This is what HKer need to emphasis, we are Chinese just like the MLer. When MLer see a colonial era flag waved by HK protesters, the anger is visceral. The shame of the Opium War, the oppression by colonial powers, it all comes back. I understand these British flag wavers are a small minority, but they need to be ostracized clearly by the protesters. Then your ML compatriots will see you are fighting the same people they hate as well. MLer feels the same pain of high housing prices as HKer, driven up by the same corrupt rich people the central government is trying to root out right now. They hate the same rich rude people who thinks just because they are rich they are better than everyone.
This is not a protest of HK vs China, it is not even HK vs the central government. We all have the same enemies! Don't wave the British colonial flag, wave the Chinese national flag. Let's see a sea of red flags, show the ML and the world that HKer are proud of been Chinese, that you are protesting not just for a better HK, but also a better China!

airsuperiority said:

Actually overseas Chinese are viewed alright. I think the true contempt is for the Communist China and not really the people. In the early years(way before the handover), mainland Chinese immigrants were viewed as brethens, industrious, etc. And to consider we donated the most for Sichuan 2008 under the slogan "we share the same blood", you can see it's not the people we hate. It's certain things and behaviours that we can't tolerate that they're doing inside HK, such as taking a sh!t in the middle of the mall and cutting in line.

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Ah, the good old "we are against Chinese government, not the people" excuse. As soon as someone raise an opinion favoring China, contempt is directed at that person as well.

Re: Chinese Daily Photos 2014!

Blackstone said:

OK, that does it. There's violence, there's injuries, and there's property damage, so it's time to send in SWAT teams and restore order. If SWAT can't do it, then send in the PEP, and if they can't do it, then send in the PLA. No government can allow anarchy and once peaceful protests turn ugly, it's the duty of the government to restore order. Rule of law, people, not rule by mob!

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Quit fanning the flames Blackstone.

This Occupy Central protest can be handled like the Occupy Wall Street protest. The government can cordon off the protesters, wait til they run out of steam, then clear out the hanger-ons. During this time though the government should really repeatedly reach out to the public to explain the government's vision and why things are the way they are and how these protests are counterproductive. This is a fight for hearts and minds so it needs to be addressed with vision and reason.

Given media bias against China, both in HK and in most English media, I have not been able to find a single article in English covering the HK government news conferences since this protest broke out. There has however been plenty of perverting the facts on the core issues of these protests as China taking away HK democracy when in fact China is granting HK more democracy, it's just that these protesters want all or nothing.