Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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bd popeye

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The Occupy Central movement in Hong Kong is not going away. This is too important of a story to ignore. Post photos or discuss the situation in this thread. Politics allowed. Post within the parameters of the rules.

Hong Kong 08.31.2014.... Pro-Beijing & Pro-Democracy protest..

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Pro-Beijing protesters take part in a rally with Chinese national flag to support Beijing in exercising decisive action outside the Chief Executive's Office in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. China's parliament said on Sunday it will tightly control the nomination of candidates for a landmark election in Hong Kong in 2017, a move likely to trigger mass protests in the city's Central business district by disappointed democracy activists. (REUTERS/Tyrone Siu)
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Founder of the Occupy Central civil disobedience movement, academic Benny Tai, looks up during campaign to kick off the movement in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Founders of the Occupy Central civil disobedience movement (L-R), academic Chan Kin-man, academic Benny Tai and Reverend Chu Yiu-ming attend a campaign to kick off the movement in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Founders of the Occupy Central civil disobedience movement (R-L) Reverend Chu Yiu-ming, academics Benny Tai and Chan Kin-man hit drums in front of Chinese characters "disobedience", during a campaign to kick off the movement in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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A protester is seen during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Pro-democracy protesters take part in a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014.(REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Pro-democracy protesters switch on their mobile phones during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Alex Chow, secretary-general of the Hong Kong Federation of Students, speaks during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Pro-Beijing protesters take part in a rally to support Beijing in exercising decisive action outside the Chief Executive's Office in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Tyrone Siu)
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A pro-democracy protester carries a placard which reads "Communist Party, you lie!" as he sits with other protesters during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in front of the financial Central district in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
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Pro-Beijing protesters take part in a rally to support Beijing in exercising decisive action outside the Chief Executive's Office in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)
 
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bd popeye

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Re: Chinese Daily Photos 2014!

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Pro-democracy lawmaker Lee Cheuk Yan, center, is taken away by security guards after a protest against Li Fei, deputy secretary general of the National People’s Congress' Standing Committee, in Hong Kong Monday, Sept. 1, 2014. China's legislature on Sunday ruled out allowing open nominations in the inaugural election for Hong Kong's leader, saying they would create a "chaotic society." Democracy activists in the Asian financial hub responded by saying that a long-threatened mass occupation of the heart of the city "will definitely happen." (AP Photo/Kin Cheung)
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Pro-democracy lawmakers display placards against Li Fei, deputy secretary general of the National People’s Congress' Standing Committee, during a briefing session in Hong Kong Monday, Sept. 1, 2014. (AP Photo/Kin Cheung)
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Pro-democracy lawmaker Cyd Ho, center, is taken away by security guards after a protest against Li Fei, deputy secretary general of the National People’s Congress Standing Committee, in Hong Kong Monday, Sept. 1, 2014. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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Pro-democracy lawmaker Fernando Cheung holds a placard which reads " Central Government break the promise " as he protests against Li Fei, deputy secretary general of the National People’s Congress Standing Committee, during a briefing session in Hong Kong Monday, Sept. 1, 2014. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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Pro-democracy protesters hold up their mobile phones during a campaign to kick off the Occupy Central civil disobedience event in Hong Kong August 31, 2014. (REUTERS/Tyrone Siu)
 

bd popeye

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Re: Chinese Daily Photos 2014!

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A protester raises a placard that reads "Occupy Central" between riot policemen and protesters outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, Saturday, Sept. 27, 2014. Riot police in Hong Kong on Saturday arrested scores of students who stormed the government headquarters compound during a night of scuffles to protest China's refusal to allow genuine democratic reforms in the semiautonomous region. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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Students are taken away by policemen at the government headquarter in Hong Kong, Saturday, Sept. 27, 2014. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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About 50 students shout slogans inside the government headquarters before they were arrested by police in Hong Kong, Saturday, Sept. 27, 2014. Riot police in Hong Kong on Saturday arrested scores of students who stormed the government headquarters compound during a night of scuffles to protest China's refusal to allow genuine democratic reforms in the semiautonomous region. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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Protesters gather against riot policemen outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, Saturday, Sept. 27, 2014.
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Occupy Central protesters march with 500-meter long black cloth, which they say symbolizes the loss of credibility in Beijing's refusal to allow true democracy in Hong Kong, September 14, 2014. The march was conducted ahead of the 'Occupy Central' civil disobedience movement's planned blockade in October at the city's central business district if Beijing does not allow the city to conduct a genuinely democratic election in 2017, according to the movement organizers. REUTERS/Tyrone Siu
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Protesters wear masks and goggles gather outside the government headquarters in Hong Kong, Sunday, Sept. 28, 2014. Thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators at Hong Kong government headquarters braced for a second night of confrontations with authorities Saturday after police arrested dozens during a chaotic protest against Beijing's refusal to allow genuine democratic reforms in the semiautonomous city. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
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Thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators gather at Hong Kong's government headquarters Sunday, Sept. 28, 2014, braced for a second night of confrontations with authorities after police arrested dozens during a chaotic protest against Beijing's refusal to allow genuine democratic reforms in the semiautonomous city. (AP Photo/Apple Daily)
 

bd popeye

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Re: Chinese Daily Photos 2014!

[video=youtube;2KADq3_6Voc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KADq3_6Voc[/video]

[video=youtube;FNDTBzyifkI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNDTBzyifkI[/video]
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

Right now in HK there's a major trouble. There's a huge escalation, but unless you guys are interested in talking about it, I won't bring it up. I'm so tired from everything that's been happening the past 24 hours.
 
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Bltizo

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Re: Chinese General news resource thread

You're not in HK, right?

I think it is better if we avoid talking about who is right or who is wrong on this matter, but it is worth keeping up to date the extent of the movement and it's prospects.

My 2 cents: central government won't budge, and either their new voting proposal will go through or HK will revert to the current/former one. Assuming this doesn't dramatically escalate in terms of violence and/or death, things may begin to settle down after a few weeks, two months at most.

Occupy's demands have really limited the possible amicable outcomes given the political realities of the situation, and what they want sounds like de facto independence and everything NOW. Obviously Beijing won't budge, so occupy has the ball in its court.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

You're not in HK, right?

I think it is better if we avoid talking about who is right or who is wrong on this matter, but it is worth keeping up to date the extent of the movement and it's prospects.

My 2 cents: central government won't budge, and either their new voting proposal will go through or HK will revert to the current/former one. Assuming this doesn't dramatically escalate in terms of violence and/or death, things may begin to settle down after a few weeks, two months at most.

Occupy's demands have really limited the possible amicable outcomes given the political realities of the situation, and what they want sounds like de facto independence and everything NOW. Obviously Beijing won't budge, so occupy has the ball in its court.
Thanks man for the concern. I'm about to share what my thoughts and feelings are of the past 24 hours. It's going to be very long-winded so if you guys don't mind you can read it. Just be warned.

Although I'm not in HK, honestly I wish I am so I can participate. I participated the rally in Vancouver today, and I kinda got sick cause I didn't wear enough, so right now I'm so tired(physically and mentally), that you don't see me firing off a post at all explaining what's happening. I'm simply too tired, and somewhat also disappointed that in SDF people don't really care too much or sometimes don't have the patience to hear us out.

But thanks for your asking and concern though.

Honestly at this time, I'm very tired mentally and physically. It's a very critical moment in HK and also what defines me. To a lot of people they may not get it, or get why we're creating all this big fuss. The truth is that it matters to us so much, that even high school students and university students are taking the streets. We truly care, which is why we're out there being pepper-sprayed over and over again. I wanted to be there because it's our future we're fighting for; a true democracy. Real history, real future, and how we want things. HK doesn't seek independence. We seek stability and harmony as much as those who's against OC or those who supports Beijing. The problem is, we no longer trust Beijing. Beijing's appointed CE had ruined everything for both sides. If CY had been a capable head of government, there won't be so much problems in HK today, or most of the issues that's surfaced in HK the past several years would have been handled properly that led to satisfaction with the government and not create today's scenario where the people are saying "we don't want you guys to pick for us anymore." Think about it, if someone's telling you not to pick his lunch, this probably means you're not ordering what he wants.

Anyway, honestly I can tell you the past 24 hours I haven't slept well at all. I felt terrible. The students are out there for the second time(first time being the nationalistic education protest) because they genuinely believed with their hearts for the cause. However, they are just students, and they're being treated like riot protestors. I felt the pain, and as Facebook groups updated probably over 50 times these past 24 hours of severe handling of the protestors. My friend, who's got friends at ground zero, kept telling me how bad it was. I could feel her pain from her messages. Students even put up their hands after being told to stop rattling the fences to demonstrate they are unarmed and peaceful, but only to be pepper sprayed. Students are being dragged. One was filmed being thrown against the corner of a wall. The PTU had been dispatched. The police simply wanted to end this whole thing. The handling certainly is still soft compared to how law enforcements around the world conducted their crowd control, but in a city like HK where the police had never been rough to its citizens that way, and where the police was some held with huge pride and esteem for not only being professional but also neutral and not rough to the citizens, had all been wiped again. For the longest time I had been a firm believer in the police and I would assess critically of the actions of both sides and often would condemn Scholarism's members for being disrespectful to the police. However what had been happening the past 24 hours had destroyed my faith in my city's police as fair, just, and for the people, and love the people. That, combined with knowing that while I'm living my life comfortably here in Vancouver while students are going through past 24 hours without sleep yet constant physical and mental abuse and screaming from being dragged around yet staying and holding on and not dispersing for the sake of what they believed in, brings unspeakable pain for me.

Today I went to the rally in Vancouver, and if you guys go on Facebook, there are now tons and tons of groups popping up of communities from different cities around the world organizing themselves up to support what's happening in HK. A lot of my friends are expressing the same feelings. A friend who I've known since college and went to Japan to do her graduate school at Waseda told me the same pain I felt. She said unfortunately she couldn't attend any because she couldn't find other HKers like herself in Japan, and so I helped her by spreading her post which calls for other HK friends in Japan to rally up. I then look back and thought, years ago we both are in the same class and that's how we met. We both had been always interested in politics, Chinese history, etc, and hence we took that course on contemporary China and met each other(I was already a SDF member by then). Eventually we went separate ways, and whereas she's got a more successful route towards politics, I had a slower path which developed my own eventual approach and attitudes towards engaging the world. Regardless, while we both went different paths, today we are reunited and connected again through our common concern for the city that we loved and felt proud of. Regardless, we are now reconnected in pains of our pessimism towards HK's future, and what's happening as we speak, and how the police are treating the students, and how HK government is no longer accountable to its people, particularly the most fragile group, the students.


A lot more had happened since. People created a petition around 24 hours ago to plead with White House to say something, and already it's nearing 85,000 signatures (100,000 required to get a White House response). Facebook groups and rallies are being organized this week. A video showing people around the world supporting HK is on Facebook. WSJ published an article saying how UK had betrayed HK. There are still tons of people in the streets. People had been supporting students with water(for also rinsing their eyes from pepper sprays), speakers, etc, had been seized and blockaded. The HKPF was determined to choke out the demonstration. Occupy Central reinitiated their movements(they are separate from the students) few hours ago.

It's a critical time in HK. Our generation had been condemned by older generations of HKers for many reasons and saying we ain't like what they used to be (or the famous "kids these days"), however today seeing how even students younger than myself are in the streets for what they believe, on one hand I'm glad or feel good to know that our generations isn't hopeless yet as we have the spirits to fight for what we believe in. On the other hand we are not only fighting for our future, but bearing full burden and currently being stepped on it for it as well speak. And for me, as a HK-Chinese who grew up in Canada, with Canadian citizenship, who learned and accepted all the values of freedom and fighting for what I believe is right, who had the privilege of higher education and living in the privileges that Canada provides and its democracy, and being taught to engage the world, this is the absolute least that I can do.

And today at the rally, for the first time, I approached the front, held the loudspeaker to my mouth, and expressed how I felt. For the first time I was truly doing a public speech. All my past experiences had been confined with classrooms or these forms of settings, but today I was speaking to express my thoughts, on why I participated. And before I attended this event, I was being bombarded by my parents on their pro-Beijing thoughts. They simply didn't understand how everyone else was feeling. It's a very lonely feeling when you're away from what's happening, but you feel strong enough to share it, and to the only people you could, your family, and they aren't opening their ears to truly hear how you're feeling, not to mention undermine it. After I went home, I checked my Facebook and saw a lot of likes by friends who saw my check-in at the event today. Only at that moment did I know, I'm not alone. They're all feeling the same way I do.

If you've made it all the way down here, thanks for reading all of this.
==========================


Newest update: it seemed like several of the roads in Central are now completely unusable as people had taken to the streets completely. All of this is just the beginning.
 
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Bltizo

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Re: Chinese General news resource thread

While I'd like to think that most of the protesters are driven by an objective desire drive by how their current or past leaders have not lived up to expectations, it is difficult to separate that voice from the overwhelming media interviews and write ups of students saying it is more about being autonomous from China. I saw a video about a protest organizer interviewed by BBC saying that they were there because they didn't want China being able to still manage affairs of Hong Kong through limiting candidates.

It is unfortunate that the protesters are being dealt with in a heavy handed way, although this is typically the norm for most gatherings of this size almost anywhere on the globe. It might reflect my stance on the right of speech and gathering versus the right of authority to maintain order, but I hold myself to the rule that I never join any public movements that may disrupt normal societal functions unless the cause is one I'm willing to die on the spot for, otherwise I'm only being a nuisance.

Anyway, what exactly is the difference between Occupy and the student movement? Aren't their goals effectively the same?


I am also curious as to a few things, I hope you'll indulge me, specifically: why now (although there have been a variety of anti ML protests since the handover)? Is it resentment due to various attempts the central government has made in recent years to exert more control over HK, or due to fundamental mistakes made by the current chief executive which the students believe wouldn't have been made under a british appointed governor (considering the HK governor under britain wasn't democratically selected by HK either)? What were those mistakes?
I also imagine there are some in group-out group tensions as more mainlanders have travelled to HK, perhaps building up a bad reputation. The city's competitiveness compared to other Chinese cities, and places like singapore have probably also been factored in, so the question is, do the students believe the city's present circumstances is due to decisions made by the central government on appointing HK's leadership rather than simply a force of nature? (By the sounds of it, the answer is yes)
Naturally, when people feel like they don't have control and when times are hard they more tend to believe their voices and opinions can or could have resulted in a better outcome. In this case, they're seeking the "two systems" side of the "one country, two systems" phrase far more than the "one country" side.

I'd also consider things such as differences in education (and thus cultural values) between mainland and HK -- even now, you and I, a HK and ML Chinese who have lived overseas for many years, hold some differing views regarding matters such as the importance of freedom, democracy, views on Chinese and global history... But that's getting a bit too distal for my taste.

---

Last few questions: what were the HKers original opinion regarding the point in the Basic Law saying universal sufferage would be the "ultimate goal," or however it was described? Did they truly believe it would be upheld?
Also, have any protesters considered the long term, once in 2047 when the "1 country 2 systems" would be abolished and HK would effectively be reintegrated into China proper?

I may not agree with the movement's aims, but I respect them for their ambition. I just hope no one gets backed into a corner and escalates.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

While I'd like to think that most of the protesters are driven by an objective desire drive by how their current or past leaders have not lived up to expectations, it is difficult to separate that voice from the overwhelming media interviews and write ups of students saying it is more about being autonomous from China. I saw a video about a protest organizer interviewed by BBC saying that they were there because they didn't want China being able to still manage affairs of Hong Kong through limiting candidates.

It is unfortunate that the protesters are being dealt with in a heavy handed way, although this is typically the norm for most gatherings of this size almost anywhere on the globe. It might reflect my stance on the right of speech and gathering versus the right of authority to maintain order, but I hold myself to the rule that I never join any public movements that may disrupt normal societal functions unless the cause is one I'm willing to die on the spot for, otherwise I'm only being a nuisance.

Anyway, what exactly is the difference between Occupy and the student movement? Aren't their goals effectively the same?


I am also curious as to a few things, I hope you'll indulge me, specifically: why now (although there have been a variety of anti ML protests since the handover)? Is it resentment due to various attempts the central government has made in recent years to exert more control over HK, or due to fundamental mistakes made by the current chief executive which the students believe wouldn't have been made under a british appointed governor (considering the HK governor under britain wasn't democratically selected by HK either)? What were those mistakes?
I also imagine there are some in group-out group tensions as more mainlanders have travelled to HK, perhaps building up a bad reputation. The city's competitiveness compared to other Chinese cities, and places like singapore have probably also been factored in, so the question is, do the students believe the city's present circumstances is due to decisions made by the central government on appointing HK's leadership rather than simply a force of nature? (By the sounds of it, the answer is yes)
Naturally, when people feel like they don't have control and when times are hard they more tend to believe their voices and opinions can or could have resulted in a better outcome. In this case, they're seeking the "two systems" side of the "one country, two systems" phrase far more than the "one country" side.

I'd also consider things such as differences in education (and thus cultural values) between mainland and HK -- even now, you and I, a HK and ML Chinese who have lived overseas for many years, hold some differing views regarding matters such as the importance of freedom, democracy, views on Chinese and global history... But that's getting a bit too distal for my taste.

---

Last few questions: what were the HKers original opinion regarding the point in the Basic Law saying universal sufferage would be the "ultimate goal," or however it was described? Did they truly believe it would be upheld?
Also, have any protesters considered the long term, once in 2047 when the "1 country 2 systems" would be abolished and HK would effectively be reintegrated into China proper?

I may not agree with the movement's aims, but I respect them for their ambition. I just hope no one gets backed into a corner and escalates.
Thank you so much for your patience and genuine concerns and listening to what I have to say. Yea this is a very critical and sensitive and emotional time for us right now. Another friend and myself simply couldn't sleep because we're so attached to what's happening in Hong Kong right now.

As for the students and the OC, the difference is, the students consists of university students, a LOT and a LOT of high school students(more than 30+ schools boycotted classes and took to the streets, supported by the university deans and high school deans and principals etc), led by Student Federation and Scholarism. You can say this group is run by the youths, while OC are the adult's group. In the past, SF and Scholarism joined forces with OC, but this time both groups detached from OC to to lead the movement.

Originally OC and the students' movements are separate, but as of now the OC group had reinforced the students (some say surrounded back the police who surrounded the students). And yes both are marching for the same cause.

Think about it, how much does it take for high school students, some probably not even 16 yet, to come out into the streets? And what infuriated a lot of people was how the students are being treated so roughly. A lot of parents also supported their children to step out if they believed in it, and the earlier attempt by an anti-OC group to disrupt/discourage students taking the streets by using a hotline to report on students who do, had received a major backlash and criticism against them for using white scare tactics. Oh and this group essentially disappeared.

And as of a recent poll conducted by City or Chinese University, 49% don't trust the HKSAR, while 48% don't trust the CCP. The numbers for supporting both HKSAR and CCP are only in their 30ish percentile.

I will explain more to you tomorrow, as I'm so drained out of energy, but I feel I must tell you this part first. How much does it take for even the junior high school students to take the streets. That's something for everyone to think about.

Oh and now OC is only ramping up gear, and already much of Central district is unusable.
 
Re: Chinese General news resource thread

[video=youtube;HCj-MBfPSxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCj-MBfPSxU[/video]

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