Future PLAN orbat discussion


blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Indeed. That's why I suspect they had been changed already. Besides, what happens in the JV GE has with Shenyang Liming will have to be reported back to the US, and the PLAN is not going to have that.
112 got upgraded several times. In 2002 and 2003 it got a series of updates, mainly focusing on weapons. Starting from 2011, it got a major overhaul that took about two years. Most sensors were changed. But I don't think they swapped the engines. Actually, I don't think PLAN ever did that to any warships. You would have to cut many structures up. It would be very costly and not very possible for PLAN to finish it with other updates altogether in just two years.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
112 got upgraded several times. In 2002 and 2003 it got a series of updates, mainly focusing on weapons. Starting from 2011, it got a major overhaul that took about two years. Most sensors were changed. But I don't think they swapped the engines. Actually, I don't think PLAN ever did that to any warships. You would have to cut many structures up. It would be very costly and not very possible for PLAN to finish it with other updates altogether in just two years.
Moreover, I don't think PLAN would like to pour that much money onto the 052 to overhaul the gas turbines. They didn't even bother to replace the HHQ-7 with the then-new HQ-10.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Moreover, I don't think PLAN would like to pour that much money onto the 052 to overhaul the gas turbines. They didn't even bother to replace the HHQ-7 with the then-new HQ-10.

The HHQ-7 is now on the FM-90N level which is an improved one.

HHQ-10 started service only in 2013, and the overhauls started in 2011-12 period. This means all the parts for the overhauls were ordered before the HHQ-10 was approved for service.

This is what they certainly bothered to change with the DDG 112/113 and all of this happened during the major overhaul.

Replacement of the radar on the aft mast to Type 364 Sea Gull.
Replacement of the Type 518 L-band radar to Type 517 Knife Rest VHF (this does not sound like an upgrade on paper, but the 517s are from the 052C/D standard, and not from the older Luda standard.)
Replacement of the DUUV VDS to Type 311.
Replacement of the TAS to Type 206 TAS.
New stealth turret twin 100mm gun
Replacing the aft 37mm AA guns to Type 730 CIWS. (This alone is mighty extensive.)
Replacing the two forward 37mm AA guns to Type 726-3 ECM.
Replacing all the EW to the current Type 726 (726-1 threat analysis ESM, 726-2 directional finder ESM, 726-3 ECM, 726-4 Decoy Launch System.) Also extensive update.

Previous updates--
Additions and changes in SATCOM
Updates to Type 360, 344 and 347 radars. These three radars would have been re-updated again.

Updates after the refit--
Addition of circular SATCOMs.

51EdI7utMxL._AC_SY780_.jpg

One radar was actually removed, and this one isn't obsolete. This is the Type 347 on top of the bridge. This is used to service the four 37mm AA guns, which also have been removed. There are two Type 347 radars on each of the Type 730 anyway.

The update also added two new cylindrical ESMs that had only appeared before on the 052C/D, and a new ESM mast above the Type 360 radar and another new ESM mast behind the Type 364 radar. New EO is also added.

Even without the HHQ-7 changed, that's an astounding work in detail that it's almost a new ship.

113.jpg
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
The HHQ-7 is now on the FM-90N level which is an improved one.

HHQ-10 started service only in 2013, and the overhauls started in 2011-12 period. This means all the parts for the overhauls were ordered before the HHQ-10 was approved for service.

This is what they certainly bothered to change with the DDG 112/113 and all of this happened during the major overhaul.

Replacement of the radar on the aft mast to Type 364 Sea Gull.
Replacement of the Type 518 L-band radar to Type 517 Knife Rest VHF (this does not sound like an upgrade on paper, but the 517s are from the 052C/D standard, and not from the older Luda standard.)
Replacement of the DUUV VDS to Type 311.
Replacement of the TAS to Type 206 TAS.
New stealth turret twin 100mm gun
Replacing the aft 37mm AA guns to Type 730 CIWS. (This alone is mighty extensive.)
Replacing the two forward 37mm AA guns to Type 726-3 ECM.
Replacing all the EW to the current Type 726 (726-1 threat analysis ESM, 726-2 directional finder ESM, 726-3 ECM, 726-4 Decoy Launch System.) Also extensive update.

Previous updates--
Additions and changes in SATCOM
Updates to Type 360, 344 and 347 radars. These three radars would have been re-updated again.

Updates after the refit--
Addition of circular SATCOMs.

View attachment 79154

One radar was actually removed, and this one isn't obsolete. This is the Type 347 on top of the bridge. This is used to service the four 37mm AA guns, which also have been removed. There are two Type 347 radars on each of the Type 730 anyway.

The update also added two new cylindrical ESMs that had only appeared before on the 052C/D, and a new ESM mast above the Type 360 radar and another new ESM mast behind the Type 364 radar. New EO is also added.

Even without the HHQ-7 changed, that's an astounding work in detail that it's almost a new ship.

View attachment 79155
No, the HQ-10 was first put in service in 2012 on Liaoning, not 2013. So, when PLAN started to refit 112 in 2011, the HQ-10 should already be available.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
The HHQ-7 is now on the FM-90N level which is an improved one.

HHQ-10 started service only in 2013, and the overhauls started in 2011-12 period. This means all the parts for the overhauls were ordered before the HHQ-10 was approved for service.

This is what they certainly bothered to change with the DDG 112/113 and all of this happened during the major overhaul.

Replacement of the radar on the aft mast to Type 364 Sea Gull.
Replacement of the Type 518 L-band radar to Type 517 Knife Rest VHF (this does not sound like an upgrade on paper, but the 517s are from the 052C/D standard, and not from the older Luda standard.)
Replacement of the DUUV VDS to Type 311.
Replacement of the TAS to Type 206 TAS.
New stealth turret twin 100mm gun
Replacing the aft 37mm AA guns to Type 730 CIWS. (This alone is mighty extensive.)
Replacing the two forward 37mm AA guns to Type 726-3 ECM.
Replacing all the EW to the current Type 726 (726-1 threat analysis ESM, 726-2 directional finder ESM, 726-3 ECM, 726-4 Decoy Launch System.) Also extensive update.

Previous updates--
Additions and changes in SATCOM
Updates to Type 360, 344 and 347 radars. These three radars would have been re-updated again.

Updates after the refit--
Addition of circular SATCOMs.

View attachment 79154

One radar was actually removed, and this one isn't obsolete. This is the Type 347 on top of the bridge. This is used to service the four 37mm AA guns, which also have been removed. There are two Type 347 radars on each of the Type 730 anyway.

The update also added two new cylindrical ESMs that had only appeared before on the 052C/D, and a new ESM mast above the Type 360 radar and another new ESM mast behind the Type 364 radar. New EO is also added.

Even without the HHQ-7 changed, that's an astounding work in detail that it's almost a new ship.

View attachment 79155
I know. Actually, this is one of the reasons I don't believe there could be any engine swapping. Based on the normal pace, the upgrades you mentioned alone should take up the two years' MLU entirely. If they had to cut it up to overhaul the turbines, it would more likely take at least one more year, maybe even slower.
 

caohailiang

Junior Member
Registered Member
YJ-12 isn't as big as some might think it to be. For the slant launch we have to assume a booster, perhaps a meter to add over 6.5 meters. This explains why the YJ-12 is a one to one fit over the YJ-83 and why they look so small when used on the Pr. 956E refits.


View attachment 79074
wow, u didnt know yj12 is that small, almost similar to yj83, how much does it weight then?
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
wow, u didnt know yj12 is that small, almost similar to yj83, how much does it weight then?
According to wikipedia, YJ-12 is 3m long, 0.6m diameter, weights about 3 tons. YJ-83 is 3m long, 0.3m diameter, weights about 850kg. So we can't say they are "almost similar".
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
According to wikipedia, YJ-12 is 3m long, 0.6m diameter, weights about 3 tons. YJ-83 is 3m long, 0.3m diameter, weights about 850kg. So we can't say they are "almost similar".

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These likely to include booster already. Without booster, length should be under 6 meters and weight around 700kg.
6.86 meters long.
850kg weight.

In contrast, YJ-12 is 7 meters long, this likely includes booster.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Very vague about the weight, but if a missile is about 7 meters long, I estimate the weight might be in the area of 1200kg to 1500kg.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
I am in favor of fewer larger ships rather than more smaller ships. I rather 4 Type 055 per carrier group than 2 Type 055 + 8 Type 52D per carrier group. Fewer types = easier logistics.

It uses the same VLS type and the same engine type. It uses the same fuel. It has same caliber gun. Which logistics problems are we talking about? The only reason to favor the larger ships is if you intent to go on longer range deployments.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
I am in favor of fewer larger ships rather than more smaller ships. I rather 4 Type 055 per carrier group than 2 Type 055 + 8 Type 52D per carrier group. Fewer types = easier logistics.

And what ships do you intend to use as the ASW screen against submarines?
Ideally you want something small and disposable, which means the submarine doesn't want to engage the ASW screen

So in other words a Frigate
 

Top