Future PLAN orbat discussion


Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Both 112 & 113 are still using LM2500s. China has imported some sort of commercial LM2500s and they can produce many parts for maintenance. Moreover, the 052s usually cruise with diesels anyway.

Don't think so. After Tianamen, US embargoed these engines and their spares. The second ship was finished wtih Ukrainian DA80 gas turbines. I would think by 2012, both ship's gas turbines would have been changed completely to domestic.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
That is not possible because GE will not allowed it and the sanction is to withheld all the parts for GE LM 2500 in China. No one will risk that too many industrial LM 2500. China is not GOD and con replicate everything ! you must dreaming. Certain technology is not for China to see

Why should China use LM 2500 they have their own domestic naval gas turbine QC 280?
How does GE know anything about it? PLAN has already been sanctioned anyway, would it even be possible for GE to do any inspection?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
You got the logic wrong. China can produce the parts for the 052s not because of the GE license. China can do it with reverse engineering and access to the commercial version helps. That's it.
You can argue otherwise, but could you please give me a source saying the engines got swapped, just a single source would do, ok?
That is not possible because GE will not allowed it and the sanction is withheld all the parts for GE LM 2500 in China No one will risk that too many i
How does GE know anything about it? PLAN has already been sanctioned anyway, would it even be possible for GE to do any inspection?
Those engine is patented DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEAN! RE LM 2500 is blatant stealing IP in day light and subject to sanctions. China cannot reverse engineer lm 2500 otherwise China re leap engine for C919 or any other engine There is no proof whatsoever that China RE LM2500 except in your skull!

There are thousand of parts in LM 2500 and no one can replicate every single one Some of them are BLACK BOX and proprietary
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Don't think so. After Tianamen, US embargoed these engines and their spares. The second ship was finished wtih Ukrainian DA80 gas turbines. I would think by 2012, both ship's gas turbines would have been changed completely to domestic.
No. By then China have already imported 5 of them. Both 112 and 113 use LM2500s, I'm pretty sure about that. And PLAN's original plan was to produce an improved version, supposedly designated 052A. After sanctioned, the 052A got canceled and PLAN was forced to develop the 051B.
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
You got the logic wrong. China can produce the parts for the 052s not because of the GE license. China can do it with reverse engineering and access to the commercial version helps. That's it.
You can argue otherwise, but could you please give me a source saying the engines got swapped, just a single source would do, ok?
United States did not ban the license and stop the component supply of the LM2500 by some tacit understanding. So is the parts supply for the S-70 helicopters.

Maybe because they want to keep some mutual confidence with China.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think it keeps a 1:1 ratio when the YJ-12 replaces the YJ-83. You often see the refitted 167 with 8 YJ-12s, but in fact it can still carry 16. Very likely the 054A/P can carry up to 8.

YJ-12 isn't as big as some might think it to be. For the slant launch we have to assume a booster, perhaps a meter to add over 6.5 meters. This explains why the YJ-12 is a one to one fit over the YJ-83 and why they look so small when used on the Pr. 956E refits.


2021_0608_b9949f06j00qud0fx0028d000v900jjp.jpg
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
United States did not ban the license and stop the component supply of the LM2500 by some tacit understanding. So is the parts supply for the S-70 helicopters.

Maybe because they want to keep some mutual confidence with China.

Shenyang Liming has JV with GE for gas turbines used for electrical energy production.
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
Shenyang Liming has JV with GE for gas turbines used for electrical energy production.
Yes, but if United States banned the service and supply for the LM 2500s maintenance, the two type 052 destroyers would have been decommissioned long time before.

The parts of gas turbine engines, especially the blades and control modules, need a direct and reliable replenish source from the vendor.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, but if United States banned the service and supply for the LM 2500s maintenance, the two type 052 destroyers would have been decommissioned long time before.

The parts of gas turbine engines, especially the blades and control modules, need a direct and reliable replenish source from the vendor.

Indeed. That's why I suspect they had been changed already. Besides, what happens in the JV GE has with Shenyang Liming will have to be reported back to the US, and the PLAN is not going to have that.
 

iantsai

Junior Member
Registered Member
Indeed. That's why I suspect they had been changed already. Besides, what happens in the JV GE has with Shenyang Liming will have to be reported back to the US, and the PLAN is not going to have that.
That's why I said China and United States had some 'mutual confidence'.

United States knew that China purchased the LM2500 engines for military purpose. But they still approved the contract(maybe because China and United States were in good relation in early 1980s, and it was a chance of getting bussiness profits). Although the two countries broke up in 1989, They still had to keep some mutual confidence to cooperate in international affairs, like anti-terrorism, preventing the proliferation of nuclear technology, or preventing an incidental nuclear crisis. So United States wouldn't express a completely untrustworthy attitudes in such an irrelevant affair.

Even in the late 1990s when China and US almost ran into a direct conflict in South China Sea, the necessary maintainance service and spare parts of these engines were still provided without obstacles. Keeping the LM2500 running did not harm the military advantage of United States towards China. So it's tolerable.
 

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