Future PLAN orbat discussion

Engineer

Major
Of course there is a need for nuclear endurance. unless China builds more overseas naval bases for replenishment, it will have a difficult time competing in Indian ocean or beyond the second island chain against US navy which has both plentiful replenishment bases and nuclear endurance. Just don't bother competing at this point if you are so focused on optimizing a losing proposal.
The lack of oversea naval bases can only be resolved by building oversea naval bases.

The common misconception a lot of people have is that nuclear propulsion gives a ship infinite endurance. What people don't take into account is that the crew still need food and aircraft still needs fuel, so the endurance of the carrier will last until whatever runs out the soonest. Even if we were to assume a nuclear carrier has infinite endurance, the escorts won't.

If nuclear propulsion were so great, US and Soviet Union would have went with all-nuclear fleets. And they tried, only to realise how bad of an idea that actually was. The US sticks with nuclear carriers not because nuclear propulsion is wonderful, but because of entrenched interests, essentially suffering from 体制问题 and not something that China should emulate.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The lack of oversea naval bases can only be resolved by building oversea naval bases.

The common misconception a lot of people have is that nuclear propulsion gives a ship infinite endurance. What people don't take into account is that the crew still need food and aircraft still needs fuel, so the endurance of the carrier will last until whatever runs out the soonest. Even if we were to assume a nuclear carrier has infinite endurance, the escorts won't.

Both you and Phead are correct -- you are correct in the sense that nuclear propulsion does not provide infinite endurance because a ship always has other consumables and the task force will inevitably have non-nuclear escorts.

However Phead is also correct in the sense that a nuclear powered carrier does still provide benefits to a task force in terms of endurance wholesale. He did not write it himself, so I will write it -- but the fact that a nuclear powered carrier does not need to undergo underway refuelling for its own propulsion/transit needs is a non-trivial advantage, especially in context of sustaining higher speeds.

The benefit for a task force (which is composed of conventionally powered escorts) is the reduced need to refuel the nuclear carrier relative to if it was conventional.



If nuclear propulsion were so great, US and Soviet Union would have went with all-nuclear fleets. And they tried, only to realise how bad of an idea that actually was. The US sticks with nuclear carriers not because nuclear propulsion is wonderful, but because of entrenched interests, essentially suffering from 体制问题 and not something that China should emulate.

A bit of a false equivalency -- nuclear propulsion being viable and sensible for some types of platforms (such as aircraft carriers of certain roles, and SSNs or SSBNs) doesn't mean it is mandatory/desirable/cost-effective for every type of vessel.

I think it is important for people who are supportive of the idea or skeptical of the idea, of a nuclear powered supercarrier to recognize that it nuclear propulsion's advantages are not all encompassing --- but also that the its more limited advantages for certain vessel types can still make it valuable to pursue.

In the case of the PLAN, the primary benefits of nuclear propulsion relate to reduced refuellling frequency needs compared to conventional carriers (as well as additional free volume for aviation fuel or other components), and overall logistical benefits to the taskforce.
When the biggest vessel doesn’t require refuelling for its own transit needs, it means you only need to refuel the carrier for its aviation fuel, which can mean the difference between needing additional replenishment ships for the task force. Meanwhile consumable dry stores can be done via vertrep or underway replenishment if needed (if one is expending munitions; food is somewhat more easy to anticipate).

Nuclear propulsion for a carrier as part of a task force that is otherwise conventional, doesn't obviate the need for a solid logistical support component, but it may significantly reduce the scale of it.
 
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no_name

Colonel
IMO China will not build purely military bases like the US, but military-commercial dual area bases, for a number of advantages.

It will have a bit of everything. Small as the sparrow, all it's organs are there.
 

Tomboy

Captain
Registered Member
IMO China will not build purely military bases like the US, but military-commercial dual area bases, for a number of advantages.

It will have a bit of everything. Small as the sparrow, all it's organs are there.
Well, for a effective base for carriers you'd probably want a airfield of some kind nearby to keep and maintain naval aircraft when the carrier pulls into port for permanent stationing. It could either be separate from the naval port to together but these facilities are going to be pretty big. I suppose if they can somehow build a dual use airport aboard it could work but naval port will likely be restricted and military only.
 

cornerodriguez

New Member
Registered Member
La falta de bases navales en el extranjero sólo puede resolverse mediante la construcción de bases navales en el extranjero.

La idea errónea que muchos tienen es que la propulsión nuclear otorga a un buque una autonomía infinita. Lo que no se tiene en cuenta es que la tripulación sigue necesitando comida y los aviones siguen necesitando combustible, por lo que la autonomía del portaaviones durará hasta que se agote lo que antes se agote. Incluso si asumiéramos que un portaaviones nuclear tiene una autonomía infinita, las escoltas no la tendrán.

Si la propulsión nuclear fuera tan poderosa, Estados Unidos y la Unión Soviética habrían optado por flotas totalmente nucleares. Y lo intentaron, solo para darse cuenta de lo pésima que era la idea. Estados Unidos se mantiene fiel a los portaaviones nucleares no porque la propulsión nuclear sea maravillosa, sino por intereses arraigados, que en esencia sufren de una "proliferación nuclear" y no son algo que China deba emular.
Otra razón es la ventaja de ahorrar espacio en los tanques de combustible del barco para dirigirlo hacia los aviones.
 
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