Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Some thoughts on Climate Change and US-China competition.

In a cold war competition scenario, there's no point in China aggressively pursuing lower emissions because wind and solar are currently still more expensive than coal.
You forget that China is also at risk from Climate Change. The whole coast line is where the richest cities of China are. If they are gone, then the high-tech economy is also gone.

Yes, China can withstand more than the US on climate change but thats like saying "harm them 1000, injure yourself by 800".

China will play hardball but ultimatelly will lower emissions (as it is doing right now)
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
You forget that China is also at risk from Climate Change. The whole coast line is where the richest cities of China are. If they are gone, then the high-tech economy is also gone.

Yes, China can withstand more than the US om climate change but thats like saying "harm them 1000, injure yourself by 800".

That is cold war logic.

I may get nuked, but you get nuked worse.

It's sad.

Hence China's construction of 350 nuclear missile silos as the USA keeps up with the cold war rhetoric.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Didn't like Qing China like order everyone to evacuate the coast and move like 30 miles in-land to sap the Kingdom of Tungning or pirates of trade and supplies? Honestly, China is fine. It might suck economically for a long time, but it's way better than West which is trying to build futile dams or flood walls (see New Orleans or Netherlands).
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Didn't like Qing China like order everyone to evacuate the coast and move like 30 miles in-land to sap the Kingdom of Tungning or pirates of trade and supplies? Honestly, China is fine. It might suck economically for a long time, but it's way better than West which is trying to build futile dams or flood walls (see New Orleans or Netherlands).
Agreed. If there is onle country which can mitigate climate change it is China. And thats because to accomplish that you need a whole of society approach.

Can you imagine the hyper-individualistic US to have its society making a monumental efforts to mitigate climate change? No way.

As I said, if China truly wants it then it can just go on as usual and watch as the world burns. However this is more of a "kill a 1000, harm yourself 800". Not worth it
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
Didn't like Qing China like order everyone to evacuate the coast and move like 30 miles in-land to sap the Kingdom of Tungning or pirates of trade and supplies? Honestly, China is fine. It might suck economically for a long time, but it's way better than West which is trying to build futile dams or flood walls (see New Orleans or Netherlands).
The problem is Qing's lack of attention to maritime trade and naval power after the takeover of Taiwan was partly to be blamed for its failure during the Opium War. Although the Manchu emperor has some knowledge of the West from missionaries and jesuits, the Manchu court completely failed to grasp the rise of the British Empire. By the time the McCartney Mission arrived in Beijing, Qianlong Emperor was absolutely ignorant of the fact that he was about to face a new nemesis that the no imperial dynasties had faced before. McCartney even presented a steam engine to the Qing Court, but no one in the Court was able to grasp the importance of this new technology. No one was able to understand how an industrialized maritime power was going to wreck havoc on China's coastal cities, and Qing's brown water navy could do little to catch up with the RN's much faster steam ships.

With the sea level set to rise, China would be smart to become a maritime power by building upon the BRI and not repeat Qing's mistakes. In the future, those who control the seas will have access to far more resources than land powers. Mahan's theory will be even more important after Antartica melts away.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The problem is Qing's lack of attention to maritime trade and naval power after the takeover of Taiwan was partly to be blamed for its failure during the Opium War. Although the Manchu emperor has some knowledge of the West from missionaries and jesuits, the Manchu court completely failed to grasp the rise of the British Empire. By the time the McCartney Mission arrived in Beijing, Qianlong Emperor was absolutely ignorant of the fact that he was about to face a new nemesis that the no imperial dynasties had faced before. McCartney even presented a steam engine to the Qing Court, but no one in the Court was able to grasp the importance of this new technology. No one was able to understand how an industrialized maritime power was going to wreck havoc on China's coastal cities, and Qing's brown water navy could do little to catch up with the RN's much faster steam ships.

With the sea level set to rise, China would be smart to become a maritime power by building upon the BRI and not repeat Qing's mistakes. In the future, those who control the seas will have access to far more resources than land powers. Mahan's theory will be even more important after Antartica melts away.

China is already the world's largest trading nation, exporting manufactured goods and importing vast amounts of natural resources.

And historically, we've seen past empires (US, British, Dutch, Spanish) build the world's largest navies to protect their trade
 

solarz

Brigadier
The problem is Qing's lack of attention to maritime trade and naval power after the takeover of Taiwan was partly to be blamed for its failure during the Opium War. Although the Manchu emperor has some knowledge of the West from missionaries and jesuits, the Manchu court completely failed to grasp the rise of the British Empire. By the time the McCartney Mission arrived in Beijing, Qianlong Emperor was absolutely ignorant of the fact that he was about to face a new nemesis that the no imperial dynasties had faced before. McCartney even presented a steam engine to the Qing Court, but no one in the Court was able to grasp the importance of this new technology. No one was able to understand how an industrialized maritime power was going to wreck havoc on China's coastal cities, and Qing's brown water navy could do little to catch up with the RN's much faster steam ships.

With the sea level set to rise, China would be smart to become a maritime power by building upon the BRI and not repeat Qing's mistakes. In the future, those who control the seas will have access to far more resources than land powers. Mahan's theory will be even more important after Antartica melts away.

Agreed about the Qing dynasty.

However, climate change is not going to turn the world into something like Water World.

What we will have are more extreme weather events, whether that be drought inland or typhoons near the coast. This will in fact make land transportation networks even more critical because humans live on land.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The problem is Qing's lack of attention to maritime trade and naval power after the takeover of Taiwan was partly to be blamed for its failure during the Opium War. Although the Manchu emperor has some knowledge of the West from missionaries and jesuits, the Manchu court completely failed to grasp the rise of the British Empire. By the time the McCartney Mission arrived in Beijing, Qianlong Emperor was absolutely ignorant of the fact that he was about to face a new nemesis that the no imperial dynasties had faced before. McCartney even presented a steam engine to the Qing Court, but no one in the Court was able to grasp the importance of this new technology. No one was able to understand how an industrialized maritime power was going to wreck havoc on China's coastal cities, and Qing's brown water navy could do little to catch up with the RN's much faster steam ships.

With the sea level set to rise, China would be smart to become a maritime power by building upon the BRI and not repeat Qing's mistakes. In the future, those who control the seas will have access to far more resources than land powers. Mahan's theory will be even more important after Antartica melts away.
It was the Qing's unbridled arrogance, hubris and know-it-all attitude that led their dynastic empire to fall into ruins and I for one detested their contemptible arrogance. Their war against Japan so thoroughly humiliated the once Asian regional hegemon that pretty much extinguished whatever little respect the western countries had for China.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
The UK defense secretary has done the politician’s equivalent of tweeting an indirect at the United States, suggesting it is no longer a ‘superpower.’

In an interview with The Spectator, Ben Wallace said that it’s obvious Britain isn’t a superpower. He didn’t quite America, but followed up with, ‘a superpower that is also not prepared to stick at something isn’t probably a superpower either. It is certainly not a global force, it’s just a big power.’

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