CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[Sczepan]

...
And if Qingdao is supposed to be the homeport for the Shandong, then why go to all the trouble getting the ship to Sanya for commissioning and then sailing it back ? China rarely does such symbolic gestures without any pre-planning or intentions.
...

agree

 

[Sczepan]

…

The thing that comes to my mind about this is what happened to the Royal Navy Type 45 destroyers when they hit warmer waters.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

’s fleet of six £1bn destroyers is breaking down because the ships’ engines cannot cope with the warm waters of the Gulf, defence chiefs have admitted.

They also told the Commons defence committee on Tuesday that the Type 45 destroyers’ Rolls-Royce WR-21 gas turbines are unable to operate in extreme temperatures and will be fitted with diesel generators.

Rolls-Royce executives said engines installed in the Type 45 destroyers had been built as specified – but that the conditions in the Middle East were not “in line with these specs”.

Earlier a Whitehall source told Scotland’s Daily Record: “We can’t have warships that cannot operate if the water is warmer than it is in Portsmouth harbour.”

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

What a fiasco... Navy's £1bn warships break down in the Gulf - because the sea's too HOT!

• Type-45 destroyers can conk out in water warmer than Portsmouth Harbour
• The £1bn ships are being retrofitted with diesel motors for back up power
• The Ministry of Defence has insisted the vessels are safe to deploy
• But former First Sea Lord Admiral West slams the failure to find errors

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Liaoning is attached to the NSF, and so will be Shandong.

The Shandong hasn't seen dry dock for a long while either, since before her own trials. So some maintenance may already be needed or scheduled, including defouling and scrapping off the barnacle growth.

Also I would be very much surprised to see the Shandong back at dry dock for barnacle remove this soon into it's service. Even with a year at sea notwithstanding.

 

[Tam]

Let us see where the Qingdao will end up before we make that conclusion. And insofar from both Chinese and English publications that I have read, they usually list the Liaoning as "PLAN navy ship" instead of any of the 3 sea's fleet prefix. While certain publications list the Liaoning among the inventory of the NSF it is more likely that they are lumping the ship in just by location. In fact some of the more easily accessed site had already listed the Shandong as belonging to the SSF.

If its based on Qingdao, its NSF.

It is however the location for the PLAN naval aviator training center, which can explain why the Liaoning is deployed close by. Sanya base in my opinion ranks in equal importance to Qingdao.

Historically, no. Qingdao is close to Beijing and the capital areas. See where the 101 Nanchang is deployed at.

Agree with the first, but again Qingdao is the base for PLAN naval aviation training. And Sanya overlooks the Melaka Strait of which more than half of China's oil supply traverse as well as the majority of it's exports to Africa and Europe. Sanya is in no way any less important than Qingdao.

Sigh. While Sanya is important, Qingdao is much closer to Korea and Japan, as well as the capital regions. The surrounding navies in the north are way stronger than in the South China Seas. This is not to mention the US presence in S. Korea and Japan and the stationing of the 7th Fleet there.

I don't quite understand this passage, does the speed of a ship traversing the strait plays a role in determining it's home port ? I would say that what speed or route the ship takes depends on the political decision at Beijing as well as the list of warming exercises and test that the ship's crew was required to take.

Nothing to do with the home port. They are testing the ship for a sustained high speed cruise. The home port is already determined and clearly by its name. Shandong, the province where Qingdao belongs to.

Again I don't see how this factor's into the location of Shandong's homeport ?
The Shandong has only been there for just one visit and a rather brief one I might add. If the PLAN was intending to test out the base it would be better to station the Shandong there longer, as to give the base personal on hand experience as well. And the Shandong can just visit Sanya after it was commissioned at Qingdao if that was it's intended homeport like how Liaoning had done in the past.

I don't think the Shandong ever intended to stay in Sanya and the visit there was a surprise.

Qingdao has always been the conventional wisdom that it would be the Shandong's home port hence people had been naming it Shandong for a while.

Only serious maintenance would require the use of a dry dock, besides barnacle growth is pretty much a minor issue for major navies at this point. Anti growth paint for ship bottoms are advanced to the point where serious scraping are not required.

That's not true. Anytime you might want to remove barnacles, inspect the ship hull, you should use the dry dock. Its not expensive to go in and out on a dry dock that is practically exclusively reserved for the ship's own use.

What do you mean antigrowth paint has "advanced" its basically the same formula through out all these years. The best way to get rid of barnacle growth is full speed ahead and to keep moving. The reason why barnacle growth can grow faster is because the ship has been sitting still and moored for prolonged periods of time under warmer waters such as summer, which is exactly what the ship did throughout 2019. The more the ship doesn't move, the more it grows. If you have significant barnacle growth, the ship would not be able to attain its top speed and that can affect the way it can launch aircraft.

 

[Tam]

Also I would be very much surprised to see the Shandong back at dry dock for barnacle remove this soon into it's service. Even with a year at sea notwithstanding.

That's not impossible nor unusual in the Pacific, where the waters are nutrient rich, especially from the river flows out of China, and for a ship that spent too much time moored between short periods of trials. The waters in this area has seen things such as massive algal blooms to massive jellyfish blooms which was actually a problem for the Liaoning since those critters threatened to clog the ship up and did require the port had to be cleared of such before the ship went to sea.

 

[PiSigma]

I don't think CV17's homeport is going to be Sanya at all. The whole idea why the name Shandong has been speculated and rightly so, is because Shandong is the province whose capital is Qingdao, and Qingdao is likely the base of the second carrier, which is where Liaoning is also based and is the home base of the NSF. But you can't call the carrier Qingdao, as provincial capitals are reserved for destroyers, so the carriers will go with provincial names.

So once the carrier is named Shandong, its certain its stay in Sanya is temporary, and its home base is going to be Qingdao.

Liaoning is named after the province of Liaoning, whose capital is, guess what --- Dalian.

Which means you have two precedents. You name the carrier from the province which it was born, or you name the carrier from the province it would likely be stationed.

Already people are betting the odds for the third carrier's name:

Guangdong, the province for which the SSF is HQ'ed.

Shanghai, which is the municipality Changxing Island is located, where Jiangnan Shipyards is. Municipality might be equal to province in status. Otherwise, the nearest province would be Zhejiang and Jiangsu. The problem of this is that Changxing is under the Shanghai Municipality but we have not seen a Chinese navy ship named after municipality. The provinces bordering Changxing island would be Zhejiang to the east and Jiangsu to the north. But technically, 003 isn't born in either.

Hainan, the province where Sanya and the Liuyi naval base is located.

Shandong was expected to return to Qingdao or Dalian, but I expected for this to happen only by January or February.

The thing that comes to my mind about this is what happened to the Royal Navy Type 45 destroyers when they hit warmer waters.

Jinan is the capital of Shandong. Qingdao is just another major city

 

[Jura The idiot]

checked the last four pages of this thread, didn't see this one (

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

):

 

[vesicles]

I don't think CV17's homeport is going to be Sanya at all. The whole idea why the name Shandong has been speculated and rightly so, is because Shandong is the province whose capital is Qingdao, and Qingdao is likely the base of the second carrier, which is where Liaoning is also based and is the home base of the NSF. But you can't call the carrier Qingdao, as provincial capitals are reserved for destroyers, so the carriers will go with provincial names.

So once the carrier is named Shandong, its certain its stay in Sanya is temporary, and its home base is going to be Qingdao.

Liaoning is named after the province of Liaoning, whose capital is, guess what --- Dalian.

Which means you have two precedents. You name the carrier from the province which it was born, or you name the carrier from the province it would likely be stationed.

Already people are betting the odds for the third carrier's name:

Guangdong, the province for which the SSF is HQ'ed.

Shanghai, which is the municipality Changxing Island is located, where Jiangnan Shipyards is. Municipality might be equal to province in status. Otherwise, the nearest province would be Zhejiang and Jiangsu. The problem of this is that Changxing is under the Shanghai Municipality but we have not seen a Chinese navy ship named after municipality. The provinces bordering Changxing island would be Zhejiang to the east and Jiangsu to the north. But technically, 003 isn't born in either.

Hainan, the province where Sanya and the Liuyi naval base is located.

Shandong was expected to return to Qingdao or Dalian, but I expected for this to happen only by January or February.

The thing that comes to my mind about this is what happened to the Royal Navy Type 45 destroyers when they hit warmer waters.

BTW, to add to what PiSigma said earlier, the capital of Liaoning is also not Dalian. It's Shenyang...

 

[Tam]

BTW, to add to what PiSigma said earlier, the capital of Liaoning is also not Dalian. It's Shenyang...

Oh my bad.


Also I am going to add, the speed which Shandong has traveled, left Barracks Ship 89 well behind and her other escorts. Maybe she can be trying hard to get rid of her barnacle growth.


Posted by LKJ86 at the PDF. Via @仙居 from Weibo

 

[Deleted member 13312]

If its based on Qingdao, its NSF.

If it is based at Qingdao.

Historically, no. Qingdao is close to Beijing and the capital areas. See where the 101 Nanchang is deployed at.

Then the Kunming should had been deployed at the NSF seeing that it was then the most technologically advanced and powerful ship at the time. But it got slotted to the SSF instead. And funny you should bring up Nanchang, because if we go by that the idea that China names ship according to where they are stationed geographically then Nanchang should be stationed at the ESF due to the location of the said city.
Also China's naval aviation for carriers is less then 2 decades old so history has little to do with this.

Sigh. While Sanya is important, Qingdao is much closer to Korea and Japan, as well as the capital regions. The surrounding navies in the north are way stronger than in the South China Seas. This is not to mention the US presence in S. Korea and Japan and the stationing of the 7th Fleet there.

The issue of the capital region only really pops up if the enemy plans for a invasion or the air force fails to deter them. Neither scenarios are possible IMO. That was how China's strategy when during the Cold War against Russia. While geopolitical the NSF area is the least likely among all 3 areas for tensions to erupt.
And SCS & Melacca straits are geographically farther from the Chinese mainland, so carrier aviation will be more crucial in that area.

Nothing to do with the home port. They are testing the ship for a sustained high speed cruise. The home port is already determined and clearly by its name. Shandong, the province where Qingdao belongs to.

Then why would you include that in your original post ? I would disagree with second assessment but I suggest we agree to disagree at this point.

I don't think the Shandong ever intended to stay in Sanya and the visit there was a surprise.

Considering the amount of preparation that goes into the commissioning and how meticulous the ceremony was conducted. A surprise is not the Shandong's visit to Sanya, you do not spring a surprise on Xi Jinping especially one that requires him to travel the near length of the country to attend to.

Qingdao has always been the conventional wisdom that it would be the Shandong's home port hence people had been naming it Shandong for a while.

I am more of the opinion that Shandong sounds more intimidating that Hainan and that in terms of importance and industrial might Shandong ranks higher. Hence the name, but we will have to see in the future.

That's not true. Anytime you might want to remove barnacles, inspect the ship hull, you should use the dry dock. Its not expensive to go in and out on a dry dock that is practically exclusively reserved for the ship's own use.

What do you mean antigrowth paint has "advanced" its basically the same formula through out all these years. The best way to get rid of barnacle growth is full speed ahead and to keep moving. The reason why barnacle growth can grow faster is because the ship has been sitting still and moored for prolonged periods of time under warmer waters such as summer, which is exactly what the ship did throughout 2019. The more the ship doesn't move, the more it grows. If you have significant barnacle growth, the ship would not be able to attain its top speed and that can affect the way it can launch aircraft.

To clarify and to rectify my original post, modern anti-growth paint is somewhat neutered due to enviromental concerns. In the past tin based paint was so effective that it kills even the surrounding microorganism, but that is Western concerns and what China thinks about it is unknown . On the flip side other navies in the area had been operating large ships for longer periods yet they are not dry docked that early into their careers. The Japan with the Izumo for one, we can agrue that helicopters and the F-35 VTOL will not require it to be functioning at top speed, but significant barnacle growth will also have a negative effect on fuel consumption.