Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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What's that?
Strange days!
First, it is strange how little news is finding its way to the Mainstream Media, which is prompting quite a few to speculate about a news black out. To be fair, the picture is very confused and it is difficult to confirm and verify very much. Even the Main Russian media is not carrying a huge amount of detail beyond the general.
I think the biggest difficulty is that we are being presented with small pieces of a jigsaw puzzle but without any picture guide as how to fit them together. There are plenty of pieces and it is possible to fit them together in ways that tell fascinating stories, but absolutely no guarantee that the pieces actually co-exist in proper context.
To Sputnik, it appears your videos are indeed of a militia column as other images/videos exist of them in action yesterday. I was however very cautious about accrediting the militia with what appear to be T-80 tanks and 2S3 Akatsiya SPA.
One matter seems beyond doubt, and that is the general retreat of Ukrainian forces in the Donbass.
I would posit that the reason for this, is the same as we saw in April, when the start of the original punitive operation was put on hold for several weeks. Namely that the build up of Russian forces on the border have the Ukrainian High Command spooked and worried about a potential invasion. Personally I do not see this happening, and the reported 12,000 deployment (up from 2000 a couple of weeks ago) is far more in line with the promised beefed up border guard than a credible invasion force. Obviously though, other units may be heading border wise and I have had it suggested, that the real fear in Kiev, would be the emergence of a new militia force in the Kharkov region, that would stir up all kinds of mischief in their operational rear.
Something however did happen (is happening) in the vicinity of the Russian border town of Gukovo. Putting pieces together seems to produce this narrative.
Across the border; in the heart of the Southern Cauldron, fierce fighting was taking place between Ukrianian National Guard units and the Militia. Numerous stray rounds were landing on the Russian side of the border and a detachment of paratroopers were sent forward to the border to observe and document what was happening. As they did they encountered a section of National Guardsmen that had been forced across the border or were at least trying to use no-mans land to manoeuvre out of danger.
Rather than surrender to the Russian authorities, the Guardsman opened fire and two Russian paratroopers were killed.
What followed; although not carried on any main news portal, does seem to be confirmed as true from usually reliable sources.
Following video purports to be Russian retaliation from the Gukovo vicinity against the main positions of the Ukrainian National Guard across the border. Second video is there to help with confirmation.
[video=youtube_share;kXpCTUjWGkE]http://youtu.be/kXpCTUjWGkE[/video]
[video=youtube_share;I5LwcGlWPcM]http://youtu.be/I5LwcGlWPcM[/video]
This does tie in with the widely covered story yesterday evening of 15 Wounded Ukrainians crossing the Russian border and asking for medical assistance.
Otherwise there is also a lot of videos of militia fighting in the cauldron and lots of shots of wrecked or abandoned Ukrainian armour. If I can have more time today and get some better context, I will try and post some.
First, it is strange how little news is finding its way to the Mainstream Media, which is prompting quite a few to speculate about a news black out. To be fair, the picture is very confused and it is difficult to confirm and verify very much. Even the Main Russian media is not carrying a huge amount of detail beyond the general.
I think the biggest difficulty is that we are being presented with small pieces of a jigsaw puzzle but without any picture guide as how to fit them together. There are plenty of pieces and it is possible to fit them together in ways that tell fascinating stories, but absolutely no guarantee that the pieces actually co-exist in proper context.
To Sputnik, it appears your videos are indeed of a militia column as other images/videos exist of them in action yesterday. I was however very cautious about accrediting the militia with what appear to be T-80 tanks and 2S3 Akatsiya SPA.
One matter seems beyond doubt, and that is the general retreat of Ukrainian forces in the Donbass.
I would posit that the reason for this, is the same as we saw in April, when the start of the original punitive operation was put on hold for several weeks. Namely that the build up of Russian forces on the border have the Ukrainian High Command spooked and worried about a potential invasion. Personally I do not see this happening, and the reported 12,000 deployment (up from 2000 a couple of weeks ago) is far more in line with the promised beefed up border guard than a credible invasion force. Obviously though, other units may be heading border wise and I have had it suggested, that the real fear in Kiev, would be the emergence of a new militia force in the Kharkov region, that would stir up all kinds of mischief in their operational rear.
Something however did happen (is happening) in the vicinity of the Russian border town of Gukovo. Putting pieces together seems to produce this narrative.
Across the border; in the heart of the Southern Cauldron, fierce fighting was taking place between Ukrianian National Guard units and the Militia. Numerous stray rounds were landing on the Russian side of the border and a detachment of paratroopers were sent forward to the border to observe and document what was happening. As they did they encountered a section of National Guardsmen that had been forced across the border or were at least trying to use no-mans land to manoeuvre out of danger.
Rather than surrender to the Russian authorities, the Guardsman opened fire and two Russian paratroopers were killed.
What followed; although not carried on any main news portal, does seem to be confirmed as true from usually reliable sources.
Following video purports to be Russian retaliation from the Gukovo vicinity against the main positions of the Ukrainian National Guard across the border. Second video is there to help with confirmation.
[video=youtube_share;kXpCTUjWGkE]http://youtu.be/kXpCTUjWGkE[/video]
[video=youtube_share;I5LwcGlWPcM]http://youtu.be/I5LwcGlWPcM[/video]
This does tie in with the widely covered story yesterday evening of 15 Wounded Ukrainians crossing the Russian border and asking for medical assistance.
Otherwise there is also a lot of videos of militia fighting in the cauldron and lots of shots of wrecked or abandoned Ukrainian armour. If I can have more time today and get some better context, I will try and post some.
Last edited:
Broccoli
Senior Member
Nikolai Holmov
#Strelkov's page boasts of A-26 being downed as Boeing MH17 reportedly crashed over #Donetsk. Inferences to be drawn
6:47 PM - 17 Jul 2014
Myroslava Petsa
#Russia's state news agency RIA bragging about "rebels shooting down a cargo plane" - pic via @euromaidan
6:47 PM - 17 Jul 2014
#Strelkov's page boasts of A-26 being downed as Boeing MH17 reportedly crashed over #Donetsk. Inferences to be drawn
6:47 PM - 17 Jul 2014
Myroslava Petsa
#Russia's state news agency RIA bragging about "rebels shooting down a cargo plane" - pic via @euromaidan
6:47 PM - 17 Jul 2014
I'm never flying Malaysian air in my life.
It doesn't really smell right. Any real evidences to suggest it was the Russians that shot it down. Given the current level of tensions, it could be a false flag from the Ukrainians or the Eastern Rebels got sloppy with their anti-air. The real question however is why the Malaysian airliner was flying near a combat zone where aircrafts had been shot down before? This conflict is not something new. It's been going for sometimes. The Malaysian airline definitely knows about the danger.
After the disappearance of MH 370 without a trace and numerous irregularities, false statements associated with its search and investigation, it will be prudent to examine the crash of another Malaysia airliner jet near a conflict zone more carefully before jumping into any conclusions.
One sure lesson from this is that don't fly with Malaysian Airline if you value your life.
Broccoli
Senior Member
Terrorist commander who is Russian tweeted that they downed "cargo plane" same time when Malaysian plane was shot down. Not really that hard to figure what happened.
solarz
Brigadier
The reported crash site seems to be smack dab in the middle of the warzone, the so-called "southern cauldron". The plane was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur... why the hell did it fly into a warzone???
Google Maps gives this flight path:
It passes nowhere near the reported crash site.
Something is really, really fishy here!
The Ukrainians are saying this is done by the rebels, but then again I don't really expect them to say anything else.
Regardless of who it is, I wouldn't want to fly on a plane that's going over a war zone and the airline I'm flying on should know dangers of such.
Lesson of the day -> don't fly Malaysian air
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