Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Quan8410

Junior Member
Registered Member
then shit happens and it's a negative example for the rest of the country.
But Shanghai is special economically (even politically) and even if other provinces learn from Shanghai, the risk is still too much to take. It's like burn your arm to teach your children not to play with fire.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
That will isolate Shanghai further away from the rest of China and will make it harder for other medicine workers to access Shanghai in cases Covid go uncontrolled and destroyed the city. There should be no experiment regarding this situation, as it can lead to instablity both mecidically and politically.

It’s not a ridiculous idea. Don’t forget that there used to be a border to Shenzhen!
 

Quan8410

Junior Member
Registered Member
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University students are among the most troublesome parts of society as their ego is extremely high. I worked with them and astonished by how much stubborn they were. Nevertheless, China introducing some "optimized" measures are nothing but a mistake just to give some false hope of opening which will not happen for anytime soon. The case is still skyrocketing and newer vaccines China had introduced have been just some experiments.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
But Shanghai is special economically (even politically) and even if other provinces learn from Shanghai, the risk is still too much to take. It's like burn your arm to teach your children not to play with fire.
Shenzhen was also special economically and politically, and it was also walled off by a soft border for a decade.
 

Quan8410

Junior Member
Registered Member
Shenzhen was also special economically and politically, and it was also walled off by a soft border for a decade.
In time of peace and extreme growth, there maybe no problem as Shenzhen as that time is extremely young and it is not as xenophobic like Shanghai. Shanghai is even more special to the economy than Shenzhen and is pretty xenophobic also (although not severe as Hong Kong). Now coupled with complicated covid situation, there is a significant amount of risk that CCP may not swallow that easily.
 

henrik

Senior Member
Registered Member
Seriously what is with your obsession with mRNA vaccines? Have you seen the lastest research on the bivalent vaccine by Pfizer and moderna? Do you even have a medial background or do you get most of your info from dr. YouTube? Let me summarize it for you, the results weren't good.

Theres lots of reasons if they want to open up in the spring. Viral lethality is less, more high acuity beds per population, better understanding of disease progression etc. Theres a whole list they could use if they wanted to. So you're really missing the forest for the trees.

What makes the situation more weird is that the vast amount of resources wasted on testing does not even increase the amount of anti-bodies. Most people are not even sufficiently boosted with traditional vaccines.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
I don't know.

To be honest, if there is sufficient public demand for "opening up and damn the consequences" then potentially the government could go ahead with it and play it in a way that it is due to consideration of consultation with the public. (Though that also adds the risk of making the public feel like they are able to make the government do anything just out of sufficient displeasure)

It goes without saying that the most important thing is that no matter what happens, the stability and legitimacy of government must not come under question in any form.
Your statement makes the logical and fair argument that the Central government holds itself accountable to the people it served.

And to your point about the government acquescing from the pressures and demand of the greater public to open up would open the government to an even greater demand that will be at odds with it's national security concerns since frankly speaking, most people are generally unaware of world issues and other geopolitical tensions since most are busy trying to run their family affairs and trying to make ends meet to fulfill their family duties and responsibilities. They would have to be mentally handicapped and exhausted to try and decipher their government actions through reading and researching things that are of secondary and thirtiary interest.

The central government has a chicken and egg issue; whatever decisions they make will have the inevitable blame and pressure from the covid-19 weary public exhausted from the economic inactivity, resulting into loss of jobs, loss of economic vitality, breakdown of family marriages etc....I don't envy the CPC authorities one bit, they are essentially stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
that's the whole damn point, when you find a cancer in medicine you isolate the tumor, experiment with different therapy approaches, then when an optimal path is found, apply decisive action. there is a sickness in Shanghai and I'm not talking COVID.
The SICKNESS IS CALLED WESTERN INFLUENCE. The more western oriented you are the more it's people, especially the young to want to copy the degenerate generation in the west do.
Let Shanghai open up as you suggested and treat it like a version of Special Economic Zones as they have done with cities like Shenzhen, only this time is to see how the relaxing of rules, along compulsory VACCINATIONS and the inevitable covid-19 infection rates and death will lead. If the results are acceptable from the number of cases to the number of fatalities, not to mention the health care system in that city does not crumble or get too overwhelmed then by all means, other cities in China can follow according to the local governments abilities, and health care infrastructure.

But if the resulting opening up resulting into chaos then at least the results should be broadcast far and wide into every corner of China to show to the citizens that such drastic opening up, even on a tier 1 city like Shanghai isn't really ideal and must not be applied all over China. People need to see consequences of their actions, because it's far too easier to assume the most rosy scenarios in one's head owing to the fact that China is the only country with the largest population not to suffer huge infections and deaths from Covid-19. So all these talk of doom and gloom that awaits them are too far removed from their lived experience.

What is pertinently obvious and true to most people living under strict policy is loss of jobs, family and relationship pressures, fissures due to economic impact, social impact, and their mental health.

To most of these protesters they would rather take their chance in getting sick and dying from Covid-19 rather than to live and die from poverty and shame.
 

Quan8410

Junior Member
Registered Member
Your statement makes the logical and fair argument that the Central government holds itself accountable to the people it served.

And to your point about the government acquescing from the pressures and demand of the greater public to open up would open the government to an even greater demand that will be at odds with it's national security concerns since frankly speaking, most people are generally unaware of world issues and other geopolitical tensions since most are busy trying to run their family affairs and trying to make ends meet to fulfill their family duties and responsibilities. They would have to be mentally handicapped and exhausted to try and decipher their government actions through reading and researching things that are of secondary and thirtiary interest.

The central government has a chicken and egg issue; whatever decisions they make will have the inevitable blame and pressure from the covid-19 weary public exhausted from the economic inactivity, resulting into loss of jobs, loss of economic vitality, breakdown of family marriages etc....I don't envy the CPC authorities one bit, they are essentially stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Greater power demand greater responsibility. The government has unlimited power and they should make it clear what they want for citizens to behave: reopening or saving lives? Half ass measures that come nowhere is the thing that will destroy its credibility. CCP know better than anyone that winter is not the time for relax restrictions just to tighten it again. They already wait for nearly 3 years, why speed it things up now?
 

MortyandRick

Junior Member
Registered Member
Greater power demand greater responsibility. The government has unlimited power and they should make it clear what they want for citizens to behave: reopening or saving lives? Half ass measures that come nowhere is the thing that will destroy its credibility. CCP know better than anyone that winter is not the time for relax restrictions just to tighten it again. They already wait for nearly 3 years, why speed it things up now?
I don't think they have a choice. This winter is shaking up to be a brutal infectious winter. In Canada, most of our hospitals are at full capacity. They are telling people to avoid our only children's hospital all together. Wait times to be seen by a doctor in ED in children's is 8 hours on average.

They are now advocating bring back masks and advising some parents to take their kids out of day care if possible.

And we are only in November. There's covid, flu, and RSV. Triple whammy. All of which are super infectious. The Chinese govt may not have a choice. They're trying to slowly open up while having enough medical care available.
 
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