Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)


KYli

Major
I think it is a far gone conclusion that Pfizer can't achieve herd immunity. MSM now will move their goalpost from effectiveness against infections to effectiveness against hospitalizations. In the end of the day, Pfizer or any mRNA vaccines isn't that superior than traditional inactivated vaccines. mRNA vaccines trigger a higher load of antibodies to achieve a short effectiveness against infections. After the initial spike of antibodies wear off, mRNA vaccines effectiveness dropped dramatically especially after new variants emerge.
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Phead128

Senior Member
Yea, herd immunity is not possible with vaccine hesitancy, new variants, vaccine shortages, etc...

Plus think, even say China mandates universal vaccination, you still need boosters every year, since antibodies naturally wane over time, and variant factories (e.g. India) still exists.

We'd be in a situation similar to seasonal flu due to new variants.

A "win" against COVID now is not herd immunity, but maximizing the proportion of vaccinated (esp. most vulnerable), and learning to live with it with seasonal boosters. A "win" against COVID is zero deaths and hospitalizations, not infections.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yea, herd immunity is not possible with vaccine hesitancy, new variants, vaccine shortages, etc...

Plus think, even say China mandates universal vaccination, you still need boosters every year, since antibodies naturally wane over time, and variant factories (e.g. India) still exists.

We'd be in a situation similar to seasonal flu due to new variants.

A "win" against COVID now is not herd immunity, but maximizing the proportion of vaccinated (esp. most vulnerable), and learning to live with it with seasonable boosters.
Do scientists know the seasonal pattern of Covid? I know that it usually gets bad during the winter, but these variants just seem to pop out of nowhere. It's as if it mutates on a whim.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Do scientists know the seasonal pattern of Covid? I know that it usually gets bad during the winter, but these variants just seem to pop out of nowhere. It's as if it mutates on a whim.


No seasonal routine. You cannot count on weather because that's something you can evolve defenses against. Variants pop up with people infected with long Covid or just anyone who is sick. Its all random. Thousands and thousands of variants are formed but most are dead end. Law of selection picks up the winners. It doesn't stop there. Its possible that a person can be infected with two variants and create a new variant mixing the two.

Herd immunity is only an obstacle that evolution will eventually go around over if the virus is not stopped before it reached this stage. Its a race against time.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think it is a far gone conclusion that Pfizer can't achieve herd immunity. MSM now will move their goalpost from effectiveness against infections to effectiveness against hospitalizations. In the end of the day, Pfizer or any mRNA vaccines isn't that superior than traditional inactivated vaccines. mRNA vaccines trigger a higher load of antibodies to achieve a short effectiveness against infections. After the initial spike of antibodies wear off, mRNA vaccines effectiveness dropped dramatically especially after new variants emerge.
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"Some analysts have
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because of a range of factors, including questions over whether there is accurate data on infection levels among the non-vaccinated, which is vital for such stats."

It's funny reading the above paragraph because these same analysts and analysis weren't sparing when it comes to the supposed "Highly Ineffective Chinese made vaccines" which most persistent anti-China critics in both media and government keep harping about the 51% figure study that came out of Brazil.

No wonder, there are enough large swathe of the population who are anti-vaxxers specific to covid-19 because of these contradictory messages due to the extreme politization of vaccines made not by or from the west.
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
The Delta variant outbreak in Australia is getting out of hand, it's comparable to the western MSM portrayal of 'asian nations struggling against Delta' but you wouldn't know it from the toned down bland non hysterical way it is reported.

Nonetheless, the outbreak is going to hammer Australia's covid recovery which was already on its last legs:
Sydney's extended lockdown could push the national unemployment rate to 5.6 per cent under new modelling from Capital Economics, assuming stay-at-home orders last for two months and businesses suffer equivalent damage to those in Victoria last year.

Capital also warns some businesses won't survive.
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KYli

Major
MSM is desperate to come up with anything to demonize Chinese vaccines. They use a study from bias researchers with unknown test kit to discredit Sinopharm vaccine effectiveness against elderly by saying not enough antibodies are detected among elderly.
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China’s National Health Commission declined to comment on the study, saying it would only respond to studies by governments or major research institutions.




On the other hand, Peru government study of Sinopharm effectiveness is rarely reported in the West. Peru study is important as it has multiple new variants such as Gamma and Lambda.
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INS: Sinopharm vaccine is up to 94% effective in reducing death from COVID-19

The director of the INS, Víctor Suárez, said that the studies carried out on the Sinopharm vaccine show that this dose prevents death and is in line with the doses from other laboratories. Along these lines, he urged citizens to stop fear and get vaccinated.

Víctor Suárez Moreno, director of the National Institute of Health (INS), pointed out this Thursday that a recent study shows that the Sinopharm vaccine has an effectiveness of up to 94%, to reduce the risk of death in those who received the doses from said laboratory.

As he explained to Espacio Vital of RPP Noticias, the study carried out collaboratively between INS, the Southern Scientific University and the Institute for the Evaluation of Health Technologies crossed information from health workers in various databases, to determine what was the effectiveness of the Sinopharm vaccine they received.

He specified that they analyzed a significant number of data with 61,000 unvaccinated people and 300,000 people who received the inoculation. Thus, the results indicate that the effectiveness of the Sinopharm vaccine in reducing the risk of death reaches 94%.

"We have taken the Inforhus databases where the health workers and the vaccines they have received are, we have used the Medlab and Ciscovid databases, where the results of the molecular and antigenic tests are, and we have used the database of data from Sinadef, where the deaths are, ”he said.

"The most relevant data is in relation to mortality. What we found is that the Sinopharm vaccine is 94% effective for mortality, it has a strong impact (...) Death from COVID-19 specifically, because there is also general death, 90% effective, but death from COVID-19 it is 94% ”, he indicated.

The specialist also mentioned that they have been able to show that the immune response of the Sinopharm vaccine is very high and that at least 99% of those vaccinated have antibodies against COVID-19.


However, he stressed that the response of the first dose from the Chinese laboratory is different, when the person already had a history or not of the infection. Along these lines, he explained that a person who has a history of COVID-19 develops more antibodies than someone who did not have the infection.

“What has caught our attention is that the response to the first dose is different when it is a person with or without a history of infection. For example, those who do not have a history of infection, 15 to 30% develop antibodies with one dose, while if they have a history of infection, they have had disease before, this rises to 82% or 77% with just one dose " , he indicated.

Suárez assured that from the INS they are working to promote the vaccination process against COVID-19 at the national level and to remove the fear of people so that the inoculations are applied. In this regard, he reiterated that the Sinopharm vaccine "prevents death and is in line with what happens with other vaccines as well."
 

plawolf

Brigadier
This is the problem with western ‘democratic’ perversion and weaponisation of science. It drowns out and discredits the singular, real, scientifically proven truth with a chorus of ideology and opinion driven bullshit while creating the ridiculous notion that you can pick your own ‘truth’.

It started with climate change where big oil would fund intellectual prostitutes to artificially create a counter argument when no such viewpoint exists in the good faith, honest, evidence based research community.

Trump supercharged it by breaking the previous American unspoken consensus that such dirty-tricks-post-truth politics weaponry should only be deployed by the likes of the CIA/NED on foreign enemies and in foreign lands, and instead used it in America to win the election.

But the other major new developed western propagandists have not figured out is social media.

No long do the western MSM have a stranglehold on information. That means they could no longer act as the gatekeepers the way that the western MSM did during the Cold War in keeping western propaganda from blowing back into western domestic audiences and politics.

That’s why Biden is waging war on Facebook, as they at last realised the issue and are trying to rein western social media in and get them to behave like the western MSM of old in keeping all the bad faith BS they are broadcasting for their enemies from also poisoning the minds of their own people.

It is hilariously ironic that western MSM information Warfare aimed to create vaccine hesitancy in China and against Chinese vaccines are gaining zero traction in their intended audiences in China, but are instead blowing back hard on the west’s own domestic audiences and making their already calamitous covid situation many times worse.
 

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yea, herd immunity is not possible with vaccine hesitancy, new variants, vaccine shortages, etc...

Plus think, even say China mandates universal vaccination, you still need boosters every year, since antibodies naturally wane over time, and variant factories (e.g. India) still exists.

We'd be in a situation similar to seasonal flu due to new variants.

A "win" against COVID now is not herd immunity, but maximizing the proportion of vaccinated (esp. most vulnerable), and learning to live with it with seasonal boosters. A "win" against COVID is zero deaths and hospitalizations, not infections.

I think the hope is for China to further develop the vaccines for the third world. This is critical to preventing the mutation of even newer variants as the access to healthcare is more limited. China will have the full range of single shot/vector (CanSino), mRNA (Walvax), protein subunit (ZF2001), and inactivated available to all nations. All the vaccines listed here are approved in at least 1 international country except Walvax. Furthermore, we are seeing research into mixing vaccines which may have some positive benefits from preliminary reports.
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I think most of the West won't be a problem because of the money available to throw at the problem. There will be a vaccine/profits arms race until the virus is reduced to a manageable level or immune systems are strengthened to the point where it is not an issue.
Moderna just included in the stock index if that is telling...

MSM is desperate to come up with anything to demonize Chinese vaccines. They use a study from bias researchers with unknown test kit to discredit Sinopharm vaccine effectiveness against elderly by saying not enough antibodies are detected among elderly.
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China’s National Health Commission declined to comment on the study, saying it would only respond to studies by governments or major research institutions.
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With regards to the Hungary study. Apparently part of the fight is political as the antibody tests is being paid for by the lower government level controlled by the opposition party to Viktor Orban. Part of the issue was that Orban paid a very high price for the Sinopharm vaccine because he went through UAE instead of direct from China.

Also, it seems Hungary is very positive on Sputnik V results.
 

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