COMAC C919


If I recall correctly, the C919 has more than 10% of US-made components, such as flight controls (Honeywell), cabin systems (Rockwell Collins), and of course, engine and nacelles (CFM, which 50% owned by GE).

As you can see, US-made components are mostly mission-critical types, so it'd not be loss to US aircraft component manufacturers; for Boeing, they've to sort out their own house.
so, in theory the US could ban the sale of C919 to Chinese companies as it has more than 10% US components :p:p:p ... this is getting hilarious
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
But Rolls Royce doesn't have a LEAP-X equivalent engine.
Now, I'm not techy. All I know is, all airlines are after the latest engines. But they are planes out there flying with other engines. So why insist with this particular one?
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
all it takes is Chinese money plus British technology plus determination from both countries to resist US pressure and blackmail.
joint collaboration to develop RR engines for the C919 is mutually beneficial and should bear fruit in , say, 5-10 years ?
Time for China to turn to the UK and Europe for future co-operation in all aerospace projects. Make everything with 0 % American components.
this is great opportunity for the UK as well. Time for UK to stand up and be a man, and shake off America's shackles and fetters.
It doesn't work like this in real life. Look at the pressure USA put all other nations under over: Huawei, Iran, North Korea. I could go on! but you get the picture.
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
Chinese would be very cautious with Britain now, since Brexit got them burned.

And Trump? He can change his mind either after he woke up or between chomping down 2 cheeseburgers. take your pick. And don't forget it's bipartisan consensus when comes to Cold War 2.0 and trade war against China, so Beijing is still getting the same dish of crap regardless it's Trump / Sanders / Warran / Bloomberg / Pence / Buttigieg sitting in White House in 2021-24. The only difference is that in Trump, the US has a mediocre as their Commander-in-Chief. And that gives China a rare advantage - they may have idiots at mayor level, but idiot just won't make it to ZhongNanHai, period.
Spot on, I couldn't put it better myself!
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
IATA expects China to be the largest air travel market by 2024-2025
Which is why China is developing this plane. China knows it won't get any orders outside of China or even certification. But no matter.

China gain:

Experience
Buy home grown planes leading to aircraft industrial infrastructure.
A base for future development.
Less revenue for foreign makers, as they will find it harder to compete inside China.
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
Now, I'm not techy. All I know is, all airlines are after the latest engines. But they are planes out there flying with other engines. So why insist with this particular one?
Actually, there are no non-US engine options that are competitive. There are two planes that are competitive. A320 Neo and B737Max. They use either the LEAP engine by CFM or Pratt and Whitney engine. Both are largely US designs. If one wants to say that Russian MC21 is also going to be comeptitive, that one uses the Pratt and Whitney engine and there's the domestic PD-14 engine option, but somehow i don't believe that one is going to be competitive in the world market.
 

Gatekeeper

Captain
Registered Member
Actually, there are no non-US engine options that are competitive. There are two planes that are competitive. A320 Neo and B737Max. They use either the LEAP engine by CFM or Pratt and Whitney engine. Both are largely US designs. If one wants to say that Russian MC21 is also going to be comeptitive, that one uses the Pratt and Whitney engine and there's the domestic PD-14 engine option, but somehow i don't believe that one is going to be competitive in the world market.
So what you are saying is the engines from Rose Royce is not competitive!?
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
So what you are saying is the engines from Rose Royce is not competitive!?
Why would one expect an R&B group to give GE a run for its money in the jet engine business?

:D

They probably have a preliminary concept sitting on a shelf - when RR left the International Aero Engines joint venture, it was with an eye toward pitching a new narrow body engine design of their own. IIRC I have a Russian presentation somewhere comparing the PD-14 engine architecture to its Western counterparts and the CFM56 which included the RR concept (RB285? It was a Trent-style three-shaft layout). Unfortunately, the lead that GE and especially former IAE partners P&W had in terms of expected entry into service date proved impossible to overcome, so the effort quickly faltered, leaving RR outside the narrow body market altogether.

It's hard to say whether they would be interested in the C919, politically their lower exposure to Boeing compared to Airbus could make it viable, though Brexit might be a problem (economic ties shifting toward the US). While development would not start completely from scratch and a left-field narrow body opportunity has its attractions, the company has moved on in the meantime. There are persistent durability problems on the Trent 1000 to contend with and R&D resources have since been committed to next-gen wide body engines (UltraFan) instead.

From the Chinese perspective it's also a difficult call whether waiting for a clean-sheet RR engine is worthwhile - the greater the improvements over the RB285 (which was unable to compete) are, the longer the delay will be. By contrast, the PD-14 is basically production-ready (it is already certified in Russia!) *now*, leaving only the work related to airframe integration. Are the anticipated performance advantages over the Russian alternative sufficient to justify waiting several years longer? Perhaps if COMAC can foresee that airframe testing and certification are so badly protracted that even a clean-sheet engine won't be the long pole in the tent it might make sense, otherwise just go for the PD-14.
 

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