Chinese Trainer Aircraft (JL-8, JL-9, JL-10 (L-15), etc.)

tamsen_ikard said:

I dont think they are comparable. Jf-17 is a full fledged fighter with aesa radar, ecm and good air to air capabilities. It also has solid anti shipping and anti radiation missile capabilities. I dont think this trainer will have the advanced radar capabilities. It might be used for light bombing missions but even there it will not be optimized for it.

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But so can be this one. They're in the same class, both supersonic/high performance and so on.
Many LIFTs already go for advanced AESAs and armament sets anyway (Koreans even going towards adding true LACM capability for FA-50 blk.70).
Here it's especially visible - IMHO what we see here is a light fighter in all but name. It may still qualify as qualification trainer for combat pilots, but at this point it's super expensive as a trainer, and can do most combat stuff without major restrictions.

Tomboy said:

IMO if there is enough demand, most if not all of what you said could be integrated with the airframe. Those and the LO features on the aircraft could make it a potent light fighter. Also, it may be in the interest of the PLA to integrate this trainer stock with a low cost AESA to better prepare pilots for transition to a real 5th/6th generation fighter.

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What's the point of adding all these features to the trainer to bring it on par with the JF-17, when one could just acquire the JF-17 itself?

_killuminati_ said:

What's the point of adding all these features to the trainer to bring it on par with the JF-17, when one could just acquire the JF-17 itself?

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It's still fully LIFT capable; 2 in 1, with much longer airframe life;
State of the art national engine, rather than imported RD-93;
It's a 3 decades newer, fresher airframe, without archeotech J-7 trails like in JF-17. It may be outright better at flights envelope;
It's Hongdu, not Chengdu, effectively reinstating them as fighter house. Local ambitions matter.

Wow, this new plane looks like it would be fun to fly. Any idea where these pictures were taken?

Syrida2887 said:

View attachment 163488

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by78 said:

Better versions of previously shared images.

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These two images are taken in very different weather conditions - which could suggest it has already conducted multiple flights?

So this aircraft looks like a good low option for the export market. How quickly this project gets put into production will be a good barometer of where Hongdu is at.

there is clearly demand out there for a low cost strike aircraft that's somewhat stealthy and free of political baggage in the global south.

Gloire_bb said:

It's still fully LIFT capable; 2 in 1, with much longer airframe life;
State of the art national engine, rather than imported RD-93;
It's a 3 decades newer, fresher airframe, without archeotech J-7 trails like in JF-17. It may be outright better at flights envelope;
It's Hongdu, not Chengdu, effectively reinstating them as fighter house. Local ambitions matter.

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Cheap LO feature is also a good selling point for nations who can't afford or need real 5th gens or advanced 4.5th gens but still want some LO feature. They could make something similar to the F-50 upgrade package for the FA-50 so you could retrofit it to be a true single seater light fighter.

Xi Yazhou mentioned in that the production of the JL-10 has stopped due to engine availability issues. Hongdu's new trainer is more likely to be aimed as a JL-10 replacement rather than as a carrier capable naval trainer.

ying1978 said:

Xi Yazhou mentioned in

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that the production of the JL-10 has stopped due to engine availability issues. Hongdu's new trainer is more likely to be aimed as a JL-10 replacement rather than as a carrier capable naval trainer.

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recently AECC have showcase plenty of small/medium category Engines.

waiting for more information but JL-XX most likely have indigenous Engines. the engine nozzle/length and design doesn't match with existing JL-10 Ukrainian engine.

Discussion continued here to avoid derailing original thread:

qwerty3173 said:

lot about the new semi-stealth trainer, saying that it has good supersonic combat capabilities and enables full BVR tactics in training and also will be used as export. Currently BVR training is mostly done on J10S and J11B since old trainers doesn't fly fast enough to enable many tactics.

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Then hopefully, China's future trainer aircraft fleet could be consolidated to streamline production, procurement and operation.

Namely, starting with CJ-6 or TA-20 as the basic trainer, followed by a common platform as the intermediate trainer (replacing the JL-8) before proceeding with the JL-XX as the advanced trainer (LIFT) to succeed the JL-10. The JL-XX would perfectly bridge the path between the less-advanced trainers and the advanced 5th-gen and 6th-gen fighters.

As for the issues regarding single-engine fighters:
- There is only the J-10 family in the entire PLAAF and PLANAF which are both single-engine-powered manned fighters AND expected to have a meaningful, sizeable presence in the PLAAF for the foreseeable future;
- All the present and upcoming manned fighter jet (programs) across the PLAAF and PLANAF will have at least two engines; and
- As for possibility of the S/VTOL fighter aircrafts in the future - As of present, there has been zero public confirmation of such aircrafts being seriously considered by the PLA beyond academic studies and technological verification projects.

Besides, if there are indeed S/VTOL manned fighter plans for the PLANAF of the future - There's the JL-9. Despite this, remember that the JL-9 is of a rather conservative/less-advanced design (meant as a safe fallback in case the JL-10 program fails), being powered by a WP-13/14 turbojet, and with its lineage dating back to the JJ-7 (and the J-7 family in-overall). It's not exactly old and worn, but not exactly new and state-of-the-art either.

Therefore, it could be better to let the JL-9 to fill up the intermediate trainer category, whether in its current form, in its upgraded form (such as swapping the turbojet engine with a new turbofan engine, with new avionics, computer and flight control systems installed, etc), or have a clean-sheet successor to do the job.

In fact, either of the latter two options is a good opportunity to make such trainer aircrafts become more competitive on the export markets too, alongside the added benefits of maintaining Guizhou's designers and engineers' wealth of skillsets (similar in a way to Hongdu with their JL-XX).

In the meantime, it's really time to let the J-7 family (and especially the JJ-7s) have their well-deserved rest...