Chinese semiconductor industry

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WTAN

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Oldschool said:
@WTAN. Based on some of the report, SMEE will have second generation of 28nm 4th quarter of 2021.
And 2023, 20nm scanner onboard. Based on that rate, maybe a 14nm scanner by 2025.
That means it gonna take a long time to reach 7nm scanner. I think the euv has to come out in 2025 and take over 7nm and below.

Alot of folks automatically assume one can do a 14nm process with double pattern with a 28nm scanner. That's absolutely false!



据报道，上海微电子设备（SMEE）有望在2021年第四季度交付其第二代深紫外（DUV）光刻扫描仪。
。报告称，到2023年，SMEE希望生产出足以用于20 nm节点的机械。
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According to a SMEE Source the 28nm SMEE DUVL is equivalent to the ASML NXT1980i. This 1980i is currently used in the SMIC 14Nnm FAB.
The insider said the current version SMEE 28nm DUVL is designed to produce Chips at the 28nm Node but it should be able to produce 14nm Chips.
The FABS using the DUVL will be the ones who will find out if it can do 14nm.
It really depends mainly on the Overlay Accuracy of the machine.
SMEE will improve the overlay accuracy of the machine gradually using feedback from the FABS that are operating the DUVL.
The ASML NXT1980i (14nm-28nm) came out in 2015 and the NXT2000i (5nm-7nm) came out in 2018, so basically a 2year difference.
I would expect the SMEE DUVL to have the same timeline as the ASML DUVL in terms of performance improvement.
But remember that this is China and SMEE might move faster if the customer has greater demands due to the current sanctions.
Yes.......the EUVL will be coming in 2025 and will allow China to FAB 5nm Chips. This news is driving alot of Anxiety among the American Politicians. If China gets the EUVL, then their Tech Policies on China has failed.
 
localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
WTAN said:
According to a SMEE Source the 28nm SMEE DUVL is equivalent to the ASML NXT1980i. This 1980i is currently used in the SMIC 14Nnm FAB.
The insider said the current version SMEE 28nm DUVL is designed to produce Chips at the 28nm Node but it should be able to produce 14nm Chips.
The FABS using the DUVL will be the ones who will find out if it can do 14nm.
It really depends mainly on the Overlay Accuracy of the machine.
SMEE will improve the overlay accuracy of the machine gradually using feedback from the FABS that are operating the DUVL.
The ASML NXT1980i (14nm-28nm) came out in 2015 and the NXT2000i (5nm-7nm) came out in 2018, so basically a 2year difference.
I would expect the SMEE DUVL to have the same timeline as the ASML DUVL in terms of performance improvement.
But remember that this is China and SMEE might move faster if the customer has greater demands due to the current sanctions.
Yes.......the EUVL will be coming in 2025 and will allow China to FAB 5nm Chips. This news is driving alot of Anxiety among the American Politicians. If China gets the EUVL, then their Tech Policies on China has failed.
Click to expand...
Shit if it comes down to it, i’ll do zemax and help with their optical train design for free. Make it or break it moment for Chinese across the world.

Hope all their optics people are more competent than me though.
 
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F

foofy

Junior Member
Registered Member
WTAN said:
According to a SMEE Source the 28nm SMEE DUVL is equivalent to the ASML NXT1980i. This 1980i is currently used in the SMIC 14Nnm FAB.
The insider said the current version SMEE 28nm DUVL is designed to produce Chips at the 28nm Node but it should be able to produce 14nm Chips.
The FABS using the DUVL will be the ones who will find out if it can do 14nm.
It really depends mainly on the Overlay Accuracy of the machine.
SMEE will improve the overlay accuracy of the machine gradually using feedback from the FABS that are operating the DUVL.
The ASML NXT1980i (14nm-28nm) came out in 2015 and the NXT2000i (5nm-7nm) came out in 2018, so basically a 2year difference.
I would expect the SMEE DUVL to have the same timeline as the ASML DUVL in terms of performance improvement.
But remember that this is China and SMEE might move faster if the customer has greater demands due to the current sanctions.
Yes.......the EUVL will be coming in 2025 and will allow China to FAB 5nm Chips. This news is driving alot of Anxiety among the American Politicians. If China gets the EUVL, then their Tech Policies on China has failed.
Click to expand...
28nm immersion scanner can do 7nm with quad patterning, with improve accuracy.
 
Quickie

Quickie

Colonel
horse said:
Thanks.

Looks like one of those Nothing-Burgers.

They want a strategy. They do not mention who is going to invest the money.

Is the private company, are they all going to invest to build this American centric supply chain and maintain its commercial viability?

Or is the government going to do it? I think US government should do it. After all, they printing all the money to make it happen.

:)
Click to expand...

And who is going the buy the overpriced products with only American sourced components in them?

Last I heard the minimum American labor cost is like 7 times that of China's major cities.
 
horse

horse

Major
Registered Member
Oldschool said:
What a bunch of bull.
The ones that's threatening US dominance is Taiwan and Korea. China is not even on the radar
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It is very disturbing.

The United States government is determined to print money and legislate the nation back to the top of the world.

My opinion, they should stop the money printing. But since 2008, they are unable to do that.
 
N

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
gadgetcool5 said:
Lee Kuan Yew once said, "China can draw on the talents of 1.3 billion people. The U.S. can draw on the talents of 7 billion people."

The U.S. openness to immigration of STEM Ph.D's and diverse society is its strength.
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There's no reason that the mainland cannot import talent. It's doing that now: you are probably acutely aware that a million of Taiwan's best people are already working in the PRC.

The rate that China is growing means that it will have more universities than the US, and a larger real economy (as opposed to GDP inflated by printed money). Therefore, in not a long time China should surpass the US as an attractive destination for top talent from around the world.
 
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localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Nutrient said:
There's no reason China cannot import talent. It's doing that now: you are probably acutely aware that a million of Taiwan's best people are already living and working in the mainland.

And the rate that China is growing means that it will have more universities than the US, and a larger real economy (as opposed to GDP inflated by printed money). Therefore, in a decade China should surpass the US as an attractive destination for top talent from around the world.
Click to expand...

I mean why even import? the current trend seems to be building HQs and research centers in the respective countries

this is better for building relations with ASEAN
 
horse

horse

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localizer said:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
mean why even import? the current trend seems to be building HQs and research centers in the respective countries

this is better for building relations with ASEAN
Click to expand...
That is the funniest thing anyone from China has done in recent years.

Ren Zhengfei comes to your house to do the reverse brain drain.

Ever since that story was published in the Globe And Mail, Canada's national newspaper, it seems to me the anti-China feelings kicked up in the usually polite Canadians.

According to the law and property rights, Huawei owns those IP that was done by Canadians working in a Huawei facility in Canada.

Canadian research into 5G goes straight to Huawei, a company the Canadian government could soon ban. As the white people say, this is awkward.

:D
 
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