Chinese purchase of Su-35


stannislas

New Member
Registered Member
China May Buy More Su-35s to Replace Older Aircrafts: Reports TASS:
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here we go again......every once a while, some random western media was going to quote some random person talked on random Russian media about China was going to buy this or that, su-35, su-57, etc. Then more media came out and write more articles rubbishing China from its engine, to production, aircraft... Those trash were later translated into Chinese and went around all the forums, and translated back to English and back here or there...and things repeat again and again.

Seriously, I'm not saying this thing is not true or not going to happen for sure, but until something becomes really concreate, can we please stop posting this kind of spam over and over again?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
here we go again......every once a while, some random western media was going to quote some random person talked on random Russian media about China was going to buy this or that, su-35, su-57, etc. Then more media came out and write more articles rubbishing China from its engine, to production, aircraft... Those trash were later translated into Chinese and went around all the forums, and translated back to English and back here or there...and things repeat again and again.

Seriously, I'm not saying this thing is not true or not going to happen for sure, but until something becomes really concreate, can we please stop posting this kind of spam over and over again?

Exactly ... In fact I was already surprised why none of these menstruation-like BS-reports popped up since months.
 

Inst

Senior Member
I don't see why it makes no sense for the PLAAF to acquire more Su-35s. They're based off Russian production lines, first, so their purchase doesn't impact Chinese production capability. Second, the larger the Su-35 ecosystem, the less expensive the Chinese upkeep of Su-35s becomes. Third, the Chinese help prop up the Russian MIC so they can continue to offset the US.

Notice the timing of all of this. The Russian Ruble should have collapsed further as the Russians and Saudis started a price war with the Americans in the oil market. This is probably a great time to pick up a buy.
 

AndrewS

Captain
Registered Member
I don't see why it makes no sense for the PLAAF to acquire more Su-35s. They're based off Russian production lines, first, so their purchase doesn't impact Chinese production capability. Second, the larger the Su-35 ecosystem, the less expensive the Chinese upkeep of Su-35s becomes. Third, the Chinese help prop up the Russian MIC so they can continue to offset the US.

Notice the timing of all of this. The Russian Ruble should have collapsed further as the Russians and Saudis started a price war with the Americans in the oil market. This is probably a great time to pick up a buy.
Plus no one else will be buying Su-35s, given the coming global Coronavirus recession.

So yeah, it would be a good time to pickup some Su-35s, especially if they were offered at bargain basement prices.
 

Inst

Senior Member
RUR dropped roughly 25%, so the price is right. Meanwhile, the RMB USD band is holding on pretty well at 7.1 vs 6.7-7 range.

The other advantage of Su-35s is that Su-35s can easily integrate Russian weapons. The R-37M, for instance, is a very impressive interceptor missile with 400 km range, whereas we only have a minimum maximum range of 200 km for the PL-15. Russian missiles are arguably more advanced than Chinese missiles in the engine sector, so having platforms to integrate Russian missiles means that Western ECM will have to combat two differing combat philosophies at the same time, as well as face different missile designs.
 

siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
RUR dropped roughly 25%, so the price is right. Meanwhile, the RMB USD band is holding on pretty well at 7.1 vs 6.7-7 range.

The other advantage of Su-35s is that Su-35s can easily integrate Russian weapons. The R-37M, for instance, is a very impressive interceptor missile with 400 km range, whereas we only have a minimum maximum range of 200 km for the PL-15. Russian missiles are arguably more advanced than Chinese missiles in the engine sector, so having platforms to integrate Russian missiles means that Western ECM will have to combat two differing combat philosophies at the same time, as well as face different missile designs.
R-37 is not comparable with the PL-15. It isn’t tailored to maneuvering targets, whereas the PL-15 is. R-37’s equivalent would be the PL-21, which also has a rumored range of 400km.
 

Inst

Senior Member
Problem is, the PL-21 isn't in service yet. The R-37M is a nice back-up system in the event that the PL-21 or whatever PL-XVR missile takes longer to mature than expected.

Just saying, while the Su-57 is a disappointment to an extent (it's basically F-22 and F-35s for broke people), the Russian missile development complex is still impressive. A variation of the Kinzhal adapted for the Su-57 could see service on the Su-35, when the direction the Chinese are going in is a DF-21 adapted for the H-6. Likely, the Kinzhal variants will have far inferior range to an air-launched DF-21, but can be mounted on smaller platforms.

You have to remember, there's holes in Chinese missile arsenals. There's the PL-10, but there's nothing known to be comparable to the American micromissile suite, and while there's the PL-21, it's more vaporware than the R-37M.

===

Put another way, is it a strength or a weakness that American fighters don't run Meteor? The Meteor missile has incredible capability, especilaly when compared to AIM-120Ds, given its ramjet power, but the Americans don't use it. Why? Because it's not an American missile and the American MIC will scream.

China should not have the same problem. If a foreign system can do a job better than a domestic system, and there's domestic redundancies in the event of embargoes or sabotage, it should use the foreign system with the domestic system as a back-up.
 

stannislas

New Member
Registered Member
Problem is, the PL-21 isn't in service yet. The R-37M is a nice back-up system in the event that the PL-21 or whatever PL-XVR missile takes longer to mature than expected.

Just saying, while the Su-57 is a disappointment to an extent (it's basically F-22 and F-35s for broke people), the Russian missile development complex is still impressive. A variation of the Kinzhal adapted for the Su-57 could see service on the Su-35, when the direction the Chinese are going in is a DF-21 adapted for the H-6. Likely, the Kinzhal variants will have far inferior range to an air-launched DF-21, but can be mounted on smaller platforms.

You have to remember, there's holes in Chinese missile arsenals. There's the PL-10, but there's nothing known to be comparable to the American micromissile suite, and while there's the PL-21, it's more vaporware than the R-37M.

===

Put another way, is it a strength or a weakness that American fighters don't run Meteor? The Meteor missile has incredible capability, especilaly when compared to AIM-120Ds, given its ramjet power, but the Americans don't use it. Why? Because it's not an American missile and the American MIC will scream.

China should not have the same problem. If a foreign system can do a job better than a domestic system, and there's domestic redundancies in the event of embargoes or sabotage, it should use the foreign system with the domestic system as a back-up.
Given your number, PL-15 could reach around 200km, so as long as J-20 could reach around 150-200km to AWECS aircraft, then China doesn't need things like R-37 at all.
And now it seems J-20 could, so there is no point for them buying R-37 at all, if that is the reason you think China should buy more su-35...
Especially US is planning to use F-35 to conduct AWECS role, R-37+Su-35 will be a giant waste of money compared with J-20.

Also, what do you mean by
You have to remember, there's holes in Chinese missile arsenals.
PL-10 vs micro missile or PL-21 vs R-73? what's the logic here? on one side you believe it's not valid to compare PL-21 to R-37 as PL-21 not exist yet, and on the other side, you think PL-10 comparing with US micro missile is valid? where is the micro missile beside of Raytheon's PPT?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Problem is, the PL-21 isn't in service yet. The R-37M is a nice back-up system in the event that the PL-21 or whatever PL-XVR missile takes longer to mature than expected.

Just saying, while the Su-57 is a disappointment to an extent (it's basically F-22 and F-35s for broke people), the Russian missile development complex is still impressive. A variation of the Kinzhal adapted for the Su-57 could see service on the Su-35, when the direction the Chinese are going in is a DF-21 adapted for the H-6. Likely, the Kinzhal variants will have far inferior range to an air-launched DF-21, but can be mounted on smaller platforms.

You have to remember, there's holes in Chinese missile arsenals. There's the PL-10, but there's nothing known to be comparable to the American micromissile suite, and while there's the PL-21, it's more vaporware than the R-37M.

===

Put another way, is it a strength or a weakness that American fighters don't run Meteor? The Meteor missile has incredible capability, especilaly when compared to AIM-120Ds, given its ramjet power, but the Americans don't use it. Why? Because it's not an American missile and the American MIC will scream.

China should not have the same problem. If a foreign system can do a job better than a domestic system, and there's domestic redundancies in the event of embargoes or sabotage, it should use the foreign system with the domestic system as a back-up.

Pardon to step in esp. since we are going off-topic again, but again it seems as if you are over-hyping certain things: You claim that there are "holes in Chinese missile arsenals" and mention in the same sentence the limitation of the PL-21 against the super-super R-37M, while you forget, that there is no R-37, at least not in Russian service yet. Similar, You mention that "a variation of the Kinzhal adapted for the Su-57 could see service on the Su-35" but you omit that this mini-Kinzhal is also not a done word yet and given China's own rocket development, what makes you think they are not capable to develop such a system on their own?

Don't get me wrong, but I find it absurd to suggest, the PLAAF should get more Su-35 only for the reason, so far not ready Russian missiles could be better than Chinese ones? Also, given the types of AAMs in RuAF I'm really not sure, what makes you believe, the Russians are ahead? They have no comparable system to the PL-15, no modern in service successor to their old R-77 and R-73, the R-33 is dated and all other types you mention are at best in a comparable state of development like the rumoured PL-21, which you dismiss as "vaporware".

And finally you really suggest, the PLAAF should introduce yet another medium to long-range AAM after the PL-12, PL-15 R-77E and its own developments currently under way?
 
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