Chinese purchase of Su-35


stannislas

Junior Member
Registered Member
RUR dropped roughly 25%, so the price is right. Meanwhile, the RMB USD band is holding on pretty well at 7.1 vs 6.7-7 range.

The other advantage of Su-35s is that Su-35s can easily integrate Russian weapons. The R-37M, for instance, is a very impressive interceptor missile with 400 km range, whereas we only have a minimum maximum range of 200 km for the PL-15. Russian missiles are arguably more advanced than Chinese missiles in the engine sector, so having platforms to integrate Russian missiles means that Western ECM will have to combat two differing combat philosophies at the same time, as well as face different missile designs.
BTW, this is how china supports russia, and RUR-CNY:

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MARCH 26, 2020 / 1:39 AM / 5 DAYS AGO

China buys record volume of Russian oil as European demand dives: traders

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and here is the last time:
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JUN 24, 2013

Russia, China Sign 'Unprecedented' $270 Billion Oil Deal

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comparing with oil money, su-35 is ...... nothing
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Problem is, the PL-21 isn't in service yet. The R-37M is a nice back-up system in the event that the PL-21 or whatever PL-XVR missile takes longer to mature than expected.

Just saying, while the Su-57 is a disappointment to an extent (it's basically F-22 and F-35s for broke people), the Russian missile development complex is still impressive. A variation of the Kinzhal adapted for the Su-57 could see service on the Su-35, when the direction the Chinese are going in is a DF-21 adapted for the H-6. Likely, the Kinzhal variants will have far inferior range to an air-launched DF-21, but can be mounted on smaller platforms.

You have to remember, there's holes in Chinese missile arsenals. There's the PL-10, but there's nothing known to be comparable to the American micromissile suite, and while there's the PL-21, it's more vaporware than the R-37M.

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Put another way, is it a strength or a weakness that American fighters don't run Meteor? The Meteor missile has incredible capability, especilaly when compared to AIM-120Ds, given its ramjet power, but the Americans don't use it. Why? Because it's not an American missile and the American MIC will scream.

China should not have the same problem. If a foreign system can do a job better than a domestic system, and there's domestic redundancies in the event of embargoes or sabotage, it should use the foreign system with the domestic system as a back-up.
How on earth do you now the PL-21 isn't in service yet. It's been photographed for years. For all we know it could have even been retired by now! lol Of course being serious, your idea is right but the R-37 would need to be carefully evaluated first. You automatically assume it's perfect while assuming an old PLAAF missile isn't even in service.
 

Inst

Senior Member
The R-37 base model is in service with MiG-31BMs. The R-37M has already been successfully tested by the Indians for an export order.

As for the PL-10 vs micromissile comparison, they're not in the same class as the PL-10 is about twice as large as the CUDA prototypes.

Other holes in the Chinese missile arsenal:

Medium-range IR (counter-stealth missiles)
Multi-mode seeker a2a missiles
Strike missiles that can be launched from stealth platforms with compact internal bays
Active chaff self-defense missiles (as opposed to micromissiles in general)
Brahmos-class hypersonic anti-ship missiles (YJ-18 is different, as it's Klub-class)

Just saying, there's nothing wrong with Chinese cooperation with other parties. We know that the Russians, ruble for RMB, are more cost-effective than the Chinese as the Chinese are still building their R&D capability (and the Russians will probably lose theirs within a generation). There's little reason for the Chinese not to have Su-35s (and later Su-57s) flying so they can continue to access Russian missile arsenals while the gap is bridged.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
@Inst

Please ... is this again a discussion for the sake of discussing?? were were - already again off-topic - discussing Air-to-Air-missiles and now you are mentioning some very exotic missiles of any type. Also again you are only looking at the PLAAF "holes" and again ignore the Russian ones ...

Medium-range IR (counter-stealth missiles) ... which one does the RuAF have in service?
Multi-mode seeker a2a missiles ... again which one does the RuAF have in service?
Strike missiles that can be launched from stealth platforms with compact internal bays ... are you sure, the PLAAF does not have? At least there are reports concerning such a missile for the J-20, and by the way, the PLAAF has at least a stealth fighter in service!
Active chaff self-defense missiles (as opposed to micromissiles in general) ... oh come on! and what does the RuAF have??
Brahmos-class hypersonic anti-ship missiles (YJ-18 is different, as it's Klub-class) ... Brahmos is not hypersonic and the PLA has the YJ-12.


Again I don't get it: You list systems, that several other countries including the USA and Russia do not have and argue with this lack, the PLAAF should buy that from Russia, where it is not even in their own service?

By the way, this topic is for the Su-35 and not your sales-prospects of Russian systems, that not even the RuAF operates. :mad:
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
And now back to the topic or you better continue this discussion in the Russian military section.
 

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