Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)


AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
100%

The main problem for the US case for hypersonics, is that Chinese nodes are spread very broadly along the mainland, and can be replaced and fixed easily since they're on home territory. So crippling the PLA/AF/N will take more than hitting a few nodes.

Whereas US nodes are much more critical, because they're supporting an extended force posture throughout a (very large) Pacific Ocean. Taking out even a few of those nodes has a very large affect on the front echelon, which is why China is investing in high-end hypersonics.

It's the nature of those nodes as well.

Call it $10 Bn for a Nimitz-class carrier plus $5 Bn for the Airwing.
Then you have the airbases which have to host tankers and bombers which are large, expensive and vulnerable to attack.

In comparison, a Chinese airbase typically comprises 24 fighter aircraft (roughly $2 Bn in total).
Plus these are small aircraft which are more difficult to find and hit.
And they don't normally need tankers to do their missions.

If the Chinese Air Force continue to add approximately 100 fighter-sized aircraft per year, I actually expect them to start recommissioning some of the abandoned airbases or building new ones. There are currently about 150 airbases, but there used to be 200.
 

Suetham

Junior Member
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I'm saying that from what we know, there are two separate general types - scramjet powered ones like DF-100, HAWC, Tsirkon with speeds of around mach 5 or to scramjet limits, and the DF-ZF, Avangard, and DARPA types which are boost glide whether boosted by MRBM boosters or ICBM boosters. These typically have far greater speeds depending on the booster.

There isn't an engine around at the moment except for China's sodramjet that could potentially be used on the second group. If there are any in the US and there are others in China, both are keeping them very quiet. The aim is to sustain the extremely high speeds of HGV and sustain them for much longer ranges than the already long ranges.

With China's recent hypersonic flight that flew within the atmosphere and around the earth, the Chinese may have such an engine or several propulsion solutions that allows a high hypersonic craft to sustain high speed throughout extremely long, intercontinental ranges. Something DF-ZF isn't doing unless it is also powered by sustained propulsion.
I've seen some references about sodramjet, but it has some inconsistencies.

In some sources, they claim that supposedly an aircraft with the sodramjet could orbit the Earth, which makes no sense.

The mechanism of the sodramjet system does not differ from the scramjet, which would be an air intake, a fuel injector (in most cases hydrogen) and a combustion chamber.

For the sodramjet/scramjet engine to work, the place where the aircraft or missile is flying must have air, outside the atmosphere it is impossible to start the engine due to the absence of air, exactly by this criterion, the scramjet works at altitudes level at 30-40 km, I still don't understand how a sodramjet will start the engine in Earth orbit when you have the air intake to make the engine run, injecting the fuel into the combustion chamber that mixed with the air creates the thrust at hypersonic speeds.

If there is any statement that the missile equipped with the sodramjet, but which has the aerodynamics of the HGV, being able to bounce according to the maneuverability of an HGV, I would say that the altitude of these jumps in the atmosphere would be at most 40 to 50 km, above that the air is starting to get thin.

Or going to the other extreme in the argument, as soon as the HGV was released from the IRBM/ICBM, it performed the jumps aerodynamically in the atmosphere, leaving and returning to the atmosphere, but losing speed, in the pre-terminal or terminal stage, as soon as the HGV was ready to dive into the target, the sodramjet would fire, which would cause the missile to gain speed, as the jumps into the atmosphere of an HGV take a toll on speed, an HGV can reach speeds above mach 20, but arrive at the target below mach 12.
 

ansy1968

Colonel
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@Maikeru bro I'm not a military guy BUT basic principle of Intelligence is never let your secret goes public or otherwise it's a false propaganda to humiliate your enemy. He is a technician (IF he ever exist) for crying out loud not the chief Researcher, one of many and the Chinese are not that stupid (usually military program are compartmentalized). Hat's off to this UK newspaper, they sure know how to create a story out of thin air and the reason why James Bond Movies are getting boring.
 

Suetham

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The defector was upset because they didn't give him the fair treatment he thought he deserved, he wanted an early promotion, he thinks his situation will change in the West, sometimes I think intelligence also comes with a sign of stupidity for others things is not possible.

This news, if true, deserves retaliation in the same proportion. The Chinese have great cyber services and have gotten a lot of information about Western combat systems, but buying information from people involved with Western projects is also worth it.

Recently, an engineer and his wife tried to sell information about American nuclear submarines, probably from the Virginia project, the problem is that they tried to sell this information to a country that was linked to the US, the source did not indicate which one it was, but some people reported being France, this couple got caught because the very country they tried to sell, passed the situation on to the FBI and the FBI agents started impersonating agents from that country they contacted. I believe that if they tried to sell to the Chinese, the couple was only asking for a few hundred thousand dollars, the Chinese would have the entire American nuclear submarine project in their hands.

As I said, intelligence also comes loaded with a sign of stupidity for other things.
 

weig2000

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Sounds like a Cold War spy story.

"Described as a rocket technician, the Chinese national was attached to the stateowned Aviation Industry Corp of China, where he helped develop a mid-range hypersonic boost-glide vehicle capable of carrying DF-17 missiles to a range of up to 2,000 miles."

AVIC develops aircraft, not missiles.

"It will probably buy us two years. We estimate it will take China two years to be able to make changes in its programme sufficiently substantial as to render this intelligence ineffective. In this sphere, two years is a very long time."

It all feels a bit surreal.
 

zszczhyx

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Fake to me. In China, people like police officers, civil servants, employees of state-owned enterprises and scientific research institutions are restricted from leaving the country, have to hand over their passports and Exit-Entry Permit for Travelling to and from Hong Kong and Macao. It is also very difficult for people with overseas study experience to enter research institutions, let alone participate in major projects.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
Sounds like a Cold War spy story.

"Described as a rocket technician, the Chinese national was attached to the stateowned Aviation Industry Corp of China, where he helped develop a mid-range hypersonic boost-glide vehicle capable of carrying DF-17 missiles to a range of up to 2,000 miles."

AVIC develops aircraft, not missiles.

"It will probably buy us two years. We estimate it will take China two years to be able to make changes in its programme sufficiently substantial as to render this intelligence ineffective. In this sphere, two years is a very long time."

It all feels a bit surreal.
I thought the DF-17 was made by CALT?
 

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