Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)


Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
WS600L is not a HGV system. It is just a very fast, very long range rocket like an MLRS system on steroids.

It seems to be a development from those pseudo ballistic missile, long range rockets. It just so happens to break through hypersonic speeds because it has a pseudo ballistic trajectory although the video seems to suggest it is guided and maneuverable. It is sort of a very inexpensive, low tier DF-ZF weapon for <300km targets and something a bit above the long range MLRS used by China that can hit targets within 1m accuracy from >200km away.

But is this in service with PLA?
The 300 km rang is for export only to comply with intermediate range convention. The domestic variant has much larger range. It can make an evasive move from enemy anti ballistic missile. As well it can make curve trajectory or C trajectory to confuse enemy AD battery . I think this is fearsome weapon because it is cheap! and self contain as well as variety of munition head
very suitable for Taiwan contingency. It has the range the sophistication and can be produced in large number
 

Xsizor

Captain
Registered Member
Time for a Quiz.

This is a picture of the proposed OPIR (Overhead Persistent Infrared) system.

Can you spot the BS in this marketing slide ?

Northrop Grumman Completes Hypersonic and Ballistic Tracking Space Sensor  Critical Design Review | Northrop Grumman



Do you see those clouds that are conveniently placed away from the launch site?

That's because Infrared sensors are horrible at seeing through water vapor.

So what happens when the launch takes place under cloud cover?

You mentioned the term "vaporware". Well, this is it, literally.
The Dense cloud cover that would impede in IR detection only reaches to 10 to 15 km high ( in the Troposphere ). Hypersonic weapons have their trajectories in the double digit km/mile altitudes. The most vulnerable is during the initial Boost phase where it would climb to the maximum altitude ( Mesosphere/ Thermosphere) and its midcourse glide would be in the Meso/Stratosphere. Only for the terminal phase would it penetrate the cloud cover.

So, most time of its journey is spent significantly above the cloud cover. Infact, the low temperature of the clouds would offer better contrast against the plus 2K Celsius body of the hypersonic craft.

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ougoah

Colonel
Registered Member
The 300 km rang is for export only to comply with intermediate range convention. The domestic variant has much larger range. It can make an evasive move from enemy anti ballistic missile. As well it can make curve trajectory or C trajectory to confuse enemy AD battery . I think this is fearsome weapon because it is cheap! and self contain as well as variety of munition head
very suitable for Taiwan contingency. It has the range the sophistication and can be produced in large number

Ahh okay yes that makes sense. The treaties do limit export versions to 300km and I was wondering why it was so "short ranged" for what it is - a mini ballistic missile.

These things are really just super MLRS. I wouldn't consider this anything as sophisticated and capable as DF-100 or moving up a tier, HGV weapons. It is basically a more capable MLRS with superior (and more expensive) guidance and navigation equipment, more variety of warhead types and submunition storage for use where attrition is important.

The rocket and fuel tech that allows for this size, payload, range, and speed for extremely affordable costs is what makes this thing worth pursuing and fielding. Much faster than supersonic cruise missiles but less sophisticated trajectories. I mean this thing alone is a fraction the cost of a Brahmos and many times more effective (variety of warheads and submunitions also can be larger too) and longer ranged (PLARF's that is). It's also a low tier weapon for the PLA relative to the other things PLA have and yet likely superior to India's most advanced anti-surface weapon.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
This has been a solved problem since the early DSP times. Actually, weather has never been a real issue for Satellite Early Warning Systems......simply because you would need the ballistic missiles to fly under the weather to avoid lighting up the sats like a Christmas tree..

How have you reached this conclusion, friend? The technology for this is well understood and in use by multiple nations (including China) for 50 years now..

Fair enough, I'll withdraw that particular objection. However, I will question how the OPIR solves the dilemma caused by FOBS in particular. Even if you detect it early, the fact that it's attacking from a vector which circumvents the first layers of defense (e.g. sea based AEGIS portrayed in the marketing slide) still remains the actual problem.
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Fair enough, I'll withdraw that particular objection. However, I will question how the OPIR solves the dilemma caused by FOBS in particular. Even if you detect it early, the fact that it's attacking from a vector which circumvents the first layers of defense (e.g. sea based AEGIS portrayed in the marketing slide) still remains the actual problem.
Yes that is indeed a challenge, but one that OPIR itself is not actually designed to tackle. OPIR as the successor to SBIRS is simply a Space Based Early Warning System, designed to detect, characterize and track threats. Countering said threats starts with early missile detection.

But ends with intercepting the target, and that is the job of other systems.
 
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AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
Something interesting here

The cost of US Hypersonic weapons is running at approximately $50M each with $14.5 Billion in development costs

But if I look at a CSBA estimate from a few years ago, they had a 4000km boost-glide antiship missile at $1.3 Billion in R&D costs plus $23M per missile

One wonders how much Chinese weapons cost

The Pentagon cost office estimates the Navy’s Conventional Prompt Strike program consists of $10.1 billion in development, $11 billion in production and $400 million for related military construction. The Army’s Long-Range Hypersonic Weapon program is estimated at $4.4 billion for development and $2.5 billion for production. The office’s internal assessment, made available to Bloomberg News, shows an expected total of 66 missiles for the Army, which includes 48 development models, and 240 missiles for the Navy.

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Michaelsinodef

Junior Member
Registered Member
One wonders how much Chinese weapons cost
Less than whatever similar counterpart the US have. If there is no actual counter, eh, still less than if the US were to develop such a counter lol.

Big part of this is partly due to less corruption/less profit motive (more control over the weapon companies than US over lockhead/boeing/raytheon etc.)
 

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