Chinese Engine Development

superdog

Junior Member
Wait, wait, wait.... you're not someone to speculate like that, unless you've already got a whiff of it.
What? It was in official news that the first CJ-1000AX completed assembly in Dec 2017 and fired up in early 2018. That it is in testing now is pretty much a given.

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What we don't know is just how many specimens they have assembled, and how far the certification process has progressed. Some expect it to finish around 2025-2030.
 
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broadsword

Brigadier
What? It was in official news that the first CJ-1000AX completed assembly in Dec 2017 and fired up in early 2018. That it is in testing now is pretty much a given.

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What we don't know is just how many specimens they have assembled, and how far the certification process has progressed. Some expect it to finish around 2025-2030.

Now that you have resurfaced, do you know when it will be tested on an aircraft?
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
The CJ-1000A uses foreign parts guys. If China really gets isolated it has to rely on the WS-20.
I agree that it makes little sense to use the C919 as a tanker. The C929 would make much more sense for that.
Given the timescales involved the C929 will not be available any time soon. Perhaps even only in two decades.
So it is plain to see the Y-20 is the aircraft which makes most sense for this application.

The C919 could still be used for radar, electronics warfare, and sea patrol however. Similar to E-7 or P-8.
In those circumstances the WS-20 engine would be good enough performance wise. E-7 and P-8 use CFM56 engines.
The question is the reliability of the WS-20 at least in its initial versions.
I thought the CR929 is targeted for introduction 2028-29?
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
The CJ-1000A uses foreign parts guys. If China really gets isolated it has to rely on the WS-20.

I thought the CR929 is targeted for introduction 2028-29?
CJ 1000A use GKN LP shaft for the prototype. But I am pretty sure that by the time to production model ready it will be replaced with domestic one or JV. The same apply to other foreign made supplier
China is determined to built domestic engine It is included in the next 5 year plan.

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China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan​

By Reuters Staff
2 MIN READ

BEIJING (Reuters) - China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.
It also aims to achieve breakthrough in engine technology for widebody jets, the government said.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
The CJ-1000A uses foreign parts guys. If China really gets isolated it has to rely on the WS-20.

I thought the CR929 is targeted for introduction 2028-29?

Who knows, the CJ-1000A might even eventually replace the WS-20 in the Y-20.
But its introduction date has been severely pushed back. This makes relying on that engine for future planning a fool's errand I think.
If it uses foreign parts that only compounds the problem as this would probably restrict its use on military aircraft.

Eh, do you really believe the CR929 estimated entry into service date? For what it's worth the Russians have conducted wind tunnel testing of the airframe, and are presently doing subscale component tests for the PD-35 engine using the PD-14 as a basis. The Russians are also currently building an engine test facility which will be able to test large scale engines like the PD-35 which should be ready in a year or two. Having recently built a modern engine test facility which will enable them to ramp up PD-14 engine tests as that is supposed to ramp up to mass production. China has built a center for the CR929 in Shanghai complete with building and everything. Supposedly the Russians are working on a similar site in Moscow. But just look at things. The Russians are still studying where they would build a factory for the wings. Because of the size of the wings they have basically given up on air transportation of them and will seemingly rely on sea transport. So the factory that would produce the wings needs to be near the ocean for sea transport, preferably on the Far East, for final integration in China. One of the places being studied to place the factory is Vladivostok. But the location isn't decided and construction on the plant hasn't started yet. There is no existing aircraft industry there. So you would need to build the facilities and move staff there. I doubt it will be done quickly. Some people might be willing to move though since a lot of Russian civilian aircraft manufacturing is in Siberia, just not near the coast. Most of the production of the wings is also supposed to be automated so they shouldn't need that many specialists. UAC is also in the middle of a major reorganization and that might delay things. They are merging the research and development centers for Sukhoi and MiG. Presumably also for the transporter business but the way they will do it is even more murky than for the military fighter side.

Do you think the partners for the CR929 can do this plane in 7-8 years? I doubt it. Well, only if it is to be done as a photo op similar to the Boeing "Dreamliner" launch where they paraded an empty shell. I doubt a flying prototype will be ready let alone they would finish the testing and be delivering it to customers.
 
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Annihilation98

Junior Member
Registered Member
The CJ-1000A uses foreign parts guys. If China really gets isolated it has to rely on the WS-20.
This is the problem of the Chinese engineer. They are too afraid to take a risk and don't believe in their own capability. Always depends on western tech. Why not just put WS-20 engine in C919 and do more testing. DON'T be afraid of failure because USA also start with failure too. China government need to ban airbus and Boeing to bring more pressure to engineer. Hard work and pressure is needed for success. Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
This is the problem of the Chinese engineer. They are too afraid to take a risk and don't believe in their own capability. Always depends on western tech.
There is no such problem with Chinese engineers. The CJ-1000 engine project was initiated in a time of international supply chains. Western companies have at least as much Chinese input in their products than vice-versa. Other than drawing an incorrect conclusion from it, your example is also cherry-picked. Whenever China needs to go it alone, China builds machines of every complexity with just Chinese input. This one civilian engine was not for reasons that are entirely unrelated to the ones you surmised however, I would bet that if pushed, China can replace all the foreign components in that engine in record time just as it suddenly goes from zero to warp speed when pushed in the lithography field.
Why not just put WS-20 engine in C919 and do more testing.
I'm not sure but I think that the WS-20 is a military solution because the base design is not cutting-edge enough to be market-competitive.
DON'T be afraid of failure because USA also start with failure too. China government need to ban airbus and Boeing to bring more pressure to engineer. Hard work and pressure is needed for success. Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures.
Chinese technological development is the fastest in the world. It doesn't need nobodies on the internet telling it anything about its philosophy or what to do with foreign competitors.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Hard work and pressure is needed for success.
I agree with this. It seems that there is still not enough pressure and that why they move so slow.

Extreme pressure is urgently needed. IMO, if the recent humilations from the US sanctions and threats is still not enough then I really dont know what will convince them that they have to hit the ground running ASAP

Chinese technological development is the fastest in the world. It doesn't need nobodies on the internet telling it anything about its philosophy or what to do with foreign competitors.
Agreed but they still dropped the ball on commercial engines. They need to quickly build indigenous avation equipment.

We have already seen the threat with the "Semiconductor Alliance" that the US is pushing along with Japan, Germany(EU) and invited S.Korea to deny China's chip development.

I would bet that in this year (if not already happening) the avation cartel Boeing/Airbus (US/EU) will do the same thing for the aviation industry
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Agreed but they still dropped the ball on commercial engines. They need to quickly build indigenous avation equipment.
What is dropping the ball? How many countries in the world can make commercial engines? How far behind is China from the elite few? China is probably right where it is using foreign components but can switch to domestic in a relatively short time when needed. Do you know how hard it is to be where that is? To me, dropping the ball would be to have no way to power your planes if foreign engines are cut off and the project would be dead because a solution would not be within the foreseeable future. Ideally, China would have just sprouted a domestic manufacturer that is globally competitive without any hostilities but there is a big big gap between what is ideal and what is dropping the ball. We have to remember that China is a very new technological power and the vast majority of its gains are recent; it hasn't been sitting on its hands for decades.
We have already seen the threat with the "Semiconductor Alliance" that the US is pushing along with Japan, Germany(EU) and invited S.Korea to deny China's chip development.

I would bet that in this year (if not already happening) the avation cartel Boeing/Airbus (US/EU) will do the same thing for the aviation industry
I welcome it very much. If they are stupid enough to make that mistake (and I have a feeling that the EU is NOT), that will give China the final push to become a global competitor at commercial jet engines.
 
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