Chinese Engine Development


supercat

Junior Member
Yeah , yeah once PRC is able to develop composites like CMC, Transparent Ceramic and/or, High modulus Carbon fiber like HR40 (which was all developed independently by Japan) then we may listen but till then its all bark with no bite.
According to Nature Index, both top institutions of physical science and chemistry are located in China. So I think it's quite reasonable to assume that sooner, rather than later, China will have breakthroughs in material science, including those materials used in jet engines. In fact, if you go to the NEV thread to take a look, China is already at the forefront of EV battery science, which requires the mastery of both physical science and chemistry. I anticipate China will catch up in material science for jet engines in 5 years.
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gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
Chinese didn't make ballpoint bearings, Switzerland doesn't make GIS/GNS systems, Japan doesn't make nuclear weapons, Russia doesn't make high end IC, France doesn't make supercomputers etc etc... I think the ballpoint bearing analogy used by the author of that article misses the point entirely especially considering how he applied it. Okay maybe the idea was to say that engines aren't quite an engineering problem equivalent to controlling the cost of ballpoint bearings. Still I think you missed Xsizor's point. Japan is a technologically capable nation (consistently a leader) and yet there are situations where it can be made to seem otherwise such as the prevalence of cassette tapes and other "strange" anachronisms. We all know it would be foolish and untrue to use that as some sort of evidence that Japan isn't a tech dominant nation. Similarly talking about China's past "inability" to make ballpoint bearings is stupidly misunderstanding why. Surely it's at least been proven it wasn't an issue of ability but rather one of simple economics.
Switzerland population 9 million, Japan 125 million, Russia 145 million, France 70 million... all those countries' population and GDP combined is only a fraction of China's.

Also, France, Switzerland and Japan don't need to make those things because they get them from the US. They are happy to be subservient to the US. So is Russia to a lesser extent. Anyway, there is little risk of the US banning IC exports to Russia as it did to Chinese companies.

The US makes (or can make) everything on your list.

The reason why China is being scrutinized at this level is that it is the only one with pretensions to challenge the US, to "stand up to the US" and it fights with everyone and has no significant allies, so if the US tells France not to ship Safran engines to China or tells Netherlands ASML not to ship SME to China, China can't get it unless it makes it itself.

Of course if China had better foreign relations then it would not need all this.
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why are we entertaining this guy...anyone who can perform a google search will know that China has companies that make CMCs and that a lot of these materials are becoming pretty mature...
Well, partly true. But within the context of Turbofan engines, the fact is that China is still behind the west in incorporating CMC into engines.

GE is the establishment most successful in pushing for CMC in the Turbine shroud hot section. They are successful because Nippon Carbon (Japan) is successful in mass production of Sic Sic CMC.

Ofc, the intention is to incorporate CMC to everywhere except the core section that has SCB. That's the final goal. And GE is slowly moving to achieve that goal.

I don't see China anywhere in this but I don't think it's a cause for great concern. Incorporating CMC can be seen as incremental progress. China first need to mass produce and induct civilian Turbofans.

Meanwhile gov investment into CMC research (mass production) is necessary so that within two decades China would be able to introduce the Tech into its Turbofans.
 

visitor123

New Member
Registered Member
Switzerland population 9 million, Japan 125 million, Russia 145 million, France 70 million... all those countries' population and GDP combined is only a fraction of China's.

Also, France, Switzerland and Japan don't need to make those things because they get them from the US. They are happy to be subservient to the US. So is Russia to a lesser extent. Anyway, there is little risk of the US banning IC exports to Russia as it did to Chinese companies.

The US makes (or can make) everything on your list.

The reason why China is being scrutinized at this level is that it is the only one with pretensions to challenge the US, to "stand up to the US" and it fights with everyone and has no significant allies, so if the US tells France not to ship Safran engines to China or tells Netherlands ASML not to ship SME to China, China can't get it unless it makes it itself.

Of course if China had better foreign relations then it would not need all this.
If they don't want to sell to China they will get ****** in the near future.
There are 2 simple choices really: sell to use or we will get it somehow in the future and put you out of business. And this is not a speculation. it has been happening in every single domain.
ASML is already one foot into the coffin.

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The reason why China is being scrutinized at this level is that it is the only one with pretensions to challenge the US, to "stand up to the US"
You mean China is the only country with the potential and the power to challenge the US. None of those countries other than Russia has a plan other than, "follow the strongest guy and hopefully that leads to the taking the least number of punches to the face."
and it fights with everyone and has no significant allies,
Russia, the most significant country in the world other than the US and China, disagrees.
so if the US tells France not to ship Safran engines to China or tells Netherlands ASML not to ship SME to China, China can't get it unless it makes it itself. Of course if China had better foreign relations then it would not need all this.
Strength trumps foreign relations. The stronger country gets its say because its vassals fear its wrath. Fear and power prevails; foreign relations can do nothing for you. And don't be a slacker. No country deserves to be the world's strongest if it relies on others for its strength. China has more STEM talent than all developed nations combined. There is no excuse for relying on others and no easy shortcut to the top; China can and must master every every technology itself.
 
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gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
If they don't want to sell to China they will get ****** in the near future.
There are 2 simple choices really: sell to use or we will get it somehow in the future and put you out of business. And this is not a speculation. it has been happening in every single domain.
ASML is already one foot into the coffin.

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If that's how you feel, show me the working WS-15/WS-18/WS-20 engine in mass production. Show me the completed CPU fabricated by 5nm process in commercial use. Then come back and talk. Until then all you have is a bunch of hot air on a message board. The American President Theodore Roosevelt has a famous saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Unfortunately some well meaning Chinese nationalists seem to do the opposite.

The US landed on the moon in 1969. Where is China? If all goes well, the same mission in... 2035. 66 years behind. In some areas China is lagging as badly as the Qing dynasty.

If you have no results then you got nothing to talk about.
 

visitor123

New Member
Registered Member
If that's how you feel, show me the working WS-15/WS-18/WS-20 engine in mass production. Show me the completed CPU fabricated by 5nm process in commercial use. Then come back and talk. Until then all you have is a bunch of hot air on a message board. The American President Theodore Roosevelt has a famous saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Unfortunately some well meaning Chinese nationalists seem to do the opposite.

The US landed on the moon in 1969. Where is China? If all goes well, the same mission in... 2035. 66 years behind. In some areas China is lagging as badly as the Qing dynasty.

If you have no results then you got nothing to talk about.
there isn't a single 5nm chip out there for commercial use at the moment. And what relevance does that have? Faster smartphone? Wow how strategic!

About the engine, it will come when it is ready. And then what? The US will probably still use the same material 30 years ago.

The US landed on the moon in 1969? Great. Do it again now, like this year or next year! oh wait! They can't. Bragging about stuffs you did in the past is like 80 years old man talking about how fast he was.

This xxx years behind is meaningless. The China didn't have the blackhawk so I guess she was 100 years behind and now she has the Z-20 which is superior to the blackhawk because it can operate in high altitude. And the US still uses the blackhawk.https://cntechpost.com/2020/07/28/chinese-company-develops-new-lithography-equipment.Does it mean the US is 50 years behind now?

And even then, what happens when China surpasses the US in all key technological fields? You will come back and lick out boots? Please don't. That's disgusting.
 
If that's how you feel, show me the working WS-15/WS-18/WS-20 engine in mass production. Show me the completed CPU fabricated by 5nm process in commercial use. Then come back and talk. Until then all you have is a bunch of hot air on a message board.
Where is America's quantum satellite? Where is its maglev? Hell, there's America's 5nm (or 7nm even) chip? Nobody claimed that China dominates every area of technology yet. The only thing more broken then your logic is your spine.
The American President Theodore Roosevelt has a famous saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Unfortunately some well meaning Chinese nationalists seem to do the opposite.
Did Teddy tell you to get on your knees and beg for better relationships with everybody? LOL Chinese nationalists have vaulted Chinese development faster than Roosevelt or any American president could ever imagine. If Teddy was alive, he'd take out his notebook and pen and ask the Chinese on what to do.
The US landed on the moon in 1969. Where is China? If all goes well, the same mission in... 2035. 66 years behind. In some areas China is lagging as badly as the Qing dynasty.
What did landing on the moon achieve for the US? It was a pet project and hasn't led to anything nor gone anywhere since. China was launching satellites and rockets into space since the Qing Dynasty? LOL Half of what you say is factually incorrect and the other half is cherry picked, combined into arguments that are made to be wrecked for your embarrassment.
If you have no results then you got nothing to talk about.
Where is America's quantum satellite? Where is its maglev? Hell, there's America's 5nm (or 7nm even) chip? If you've got no results, then you got nothing to talk about, right?
 
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