Chinese Engine Development


siegecrossbow

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Thanks. That's barely 130 kN. Puts it in the class of the F110-GE-129. For the J-10 that would suffice, but rather low for 5th gen aircraft. o_O Maybe it has an emergency mode similar to the Saturn 117/117S but at the expense of MTBO? o_Oo_O

I am wondering whether the max dry thrust in the WS-10C is higher than the AL-31. That would help with supercruise for the J-20.
The important thing is to increase the total number of J-20s right now. Performance enhancement can wait.
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is really hard to follow the many attempts and milestones of China in the aircraft powerplant field. I am preparing a small Chart to better make sense ( for my very modestly capable brain atleast) of the developments.
I will be expanding this chart to include any and all Turbofan developments of China. I would be excluding very small Turbofans and include Civilian turbofans. I need the occasional help from other members. This chart would really be helpful for anyone ( novices and not-so-technically knowledgeable too, I hope) in understanding all the Progress and setbacks China keeps encountering in this commendable endeavor.
I have compiled te chart from the information available in the thread itself ( posts starting from 2016). Inputs are welcome (and would be really helpful).

Untitled Diagram(3).jpg
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some questions :
1. The Naval version of WS-10 ( H series?) is to have better thrust. Is this true ? If so, what is the thrust improvement?
2. The WS-10H series would also need to have a better power generation (electricity) to support the J-15D (EW subsystems as well as AESA radars). So... Is the WS-10H a higher thrust with Higher electricity output ?
3. Does the J-16 use WS-10H ? ( J-16D specifically since J-16D has a connection with J-15D?)
4.WS-10IPE/G evolved into WS-10H. Is this probable? Or is the WS-10H an evolution of WS-10B (improved) ? This is quite confusing.
5. How do we distinguish between a WS-10C equipped on J-20 with a WS-15 ? The "chrysanthemums" petal design and operation holds the key ( along with the length of the WS-15 engine) Isn't that right?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
It is really hard to follow the many attempts and milestones of China in the aircraft powerplant field. I am preparing a small Chart to better make sense ( for my very modestly capable brain atleast) of the developments.
I will be expanding this chart to include any and all Turbofan developments of China. I would be excluding very small Turbofans and include Civilian turbofans. I need the occasional help from other members. This chart would really be helpful for anyone ( novices and not-so-technically knowledgeable too, I hope) in understanding all the Progress and setbacks China keeps encountering in this commendable endeavor.
I have compiled te chart from the information available in the thread itself ( posts starting from 2016). Inputs are welcome (and would be really helpful).

View attachment 54987

Thanks for your effort and I hope you don't mind my comments ...

WS-10 family + comments.jpg
 

Hyperwarp

Captain
Updated Chart...View attachment 55034
I would update the thrusts soon.
If we include some of the figures given by @Interstellar, and the official thrust range given during Zhuhai (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf -
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) the thrust value maybe more like the ones below (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf translates to 118 kN to 137 kN)

WS-10 original version with 132 kN had to be dialed down heavily
WS-10G probably never got beyond initial stages

WS-10 - 118 kN
WS-10A - 125 kN?
WS-10H - 125 kN - 128 kN?
WS-10B3 - 130 kN
WS-10C - 130 kN - 132 kN?
WS-10D - ???
WS-10IPE - 137 kN

EDIT: There doesn't appear to be a version of the WS-10 that goes over 140 kN, or at least not without ruining MTBO
 
If we include some of the figures given by @Interstellar, and the official thrust range given during Zhuhai (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) the thrust value maybe more like the ones below (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf translates to 118 kN to 137 kN)

WS-10 original version with 132 kN had to be dialed down heavily
WS-10G probably never got beyond initial stages

WS-10 - 118 kN
WS-10A - 125 kN?
WS-10H - 125 kN - 128 kN?
WS-10B3 - 130 kN
WS-10C - 130 kN - 132 kN?
WS-10D - ???
WS-10IPE - 137 kN

EDIT: There doesn't appear to be a version of the WS-10 that goes over 140 kN, or at least not without ruining MTBO
I would hardly call 12,000-14,000 "official." It's more an obfuscation than anything else. But in any case, that image is dated 2014. To be honest, I didn't know Taihang had reached 137kN in 2014 (and it might not have). I wonder what it is in 2019...
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
If we include some of the figures given by @Interstellar, and the official thrust range given during Zhuhai (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf -
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) the thrust value maybe more like the ones below (12,000 kgf to 14,000 kgf translates to 118 kN to 137 kN)

WS-10 original version with 132 kN had to be dialed down heavily
WS-10G probably never got beyond initial stages

WS-10 - 118 kN
WS-10A - 125 kN?
WS-10H - 125 kN - 128 kN?
WS-10B3 - 130 kN
WS-10C - 130 kN - 132 kN?
WS-10D - ???
WS-10IPE - 137 kN
While i'm pretty sure that no active-production variant would exceed 14000 kgf / 137 kN thrust rating (as of 2014) , I have some reservations about the situation after 5 years.
The J-20 LRIP variants used AL-41F-M2 variants (?) with around 14000 kgf thrust ( I'm going with the conservative AL-41F-1S for a ballpark figure
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).But since WS-10 series has made an appearance on J-20, are you thinking that they went with an engine with alower Thrust or equal Thrust to the imported russian engine? What was the pressing concern that forced them to fix a WS-10 series engine on the J-20? Unless there has been some improvements in reliability or thrust perhaps ?
Dieno corrected me by putting a thrust range of 128 to 145 kN ! for the WS-10 series. I am in no position to cross him ( or you ftm). Let's just leave the thrust numbers as it is . I do want to add accurate thrust numbers though.
There doesn't appear to be a version of the WS-10 that goes over 140 kN, or at least not without ruining MTBO
What are the MTBOs of the many variants of WS-10 series ? I excluded these very critical specs as I don't think any meaningful discussion or agreement has been made within this forum on those numbers for the past 3 years.
 

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