Chinese Engine Development

S

Skywatcher

Captain
AssassinsMace said:
Just ask why does the West demand transparency from China especially in regards to the military? Because they think China is deceptively hiding capabilities and they want to know and be prepared to counter. They wouldn't all be worried if they thought China was less capable.
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Actually, James Mulvenon noted yesterday at CSIS that China is a heck lot more transparent on military matters compared to most developing countries.

And also, most of the material is out there. It's just in Chinese. :D
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
Blackstone said:
Results are what matter most, and we don't see mass production of WS10A, so it's reasonable to be skeptical of designer or supplier claims. Once we see lots of WS10A rolling off production lines, we'll believe, and until then it's caveat emptor.
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Good grief. You don't see mass production of WS10 ?
This is much more a reflection on the state of your eyesight & some other areas of your anatomy than that of China's jet engine industry.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Blackstone said:
Results are what matter most, and we don't see mass production of WS10A, so it's reasonable to be skeptical of designer or supplier claims. Once we see lots of WS10A rolling off production lines, we'll believe, and until then it's caveat emptor.
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Back in 2010, the US had already reported that China had fitted some of their J-11B with WS-10A and are satisfied at the performance of the said engine, and had proceed to mass produce such an engine.

Noted that that report was in 2010, which is three years ago. Unless at these time, China did not produce any new J-11B at all, and no new engines are being produced, then we could say that China didn't have that capability. However, I am not too sure if that is true. If performance had reached satisfaction and the engine are certified for mass production plus we received no news at all to stated of a halt in the production, then I am not seeing why that engine are not being produced. So taking the report as accurate, then China do have started production of some advance engines.

Secondly, one can argued why the J-10 was not fitted with these engines... there might be multiple reasons for this,

Reason might include,

1) The aircraft was not designed for WS-10A engine at all
2) Short of engines for the J-10 (note that the J-10 are CAC aircraft and WS-10A is SAC product)
3) Economic reason (CAC might still find it more profitable or cheaper to get Russian engines than WS-10A).
 
L

Lion

Senior Member
Blackstone said:
Results are what matter most, and we don't see mass production of WS10A, so it's reasonable to be skeptical of designer or supplier claims. Once we see lots of WS10A rolling off production lines, we'll believe, and until then it's caveat emptor.
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1FCB515E-FCD1-41B7-AAA5-D5537384F85A-14392-00001147D3A060B4_zps88ab86fc.jpg


The guy in front is the chief designer(Zhang enhe) of Taihang (WS-10) engines. the background, I think there is no needs to explain.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
Blackstone said:
Results are what matter most, and we don't see mass production of WS10A, so it's reasonable to be skeptical of designer or supplier claims. Once we see lots of WS10A rolling off production lines, we'll believe, and until then it's caveat emptor.
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If you have evidence that WS-10A is not undergoing mass production, let us see it.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
MiG-29 said:
Who do we should believe?


General Zhu Heping says
General says weak foundation in sosphicated machinery is among the obstacles facing the PLA in its efforts to upgrade its home-made fighters
.A weak foundation in building sophisticated machinery and a lack of innovation are major obstacles for the People's Liberation Army in upgrading its latest domestically produced jet fighters, military experts say.

Major General Zhu Heping - vice-president of the Air Force Command Academy and the grandson of the father of the Red Army, Zhu De - talked about the constraints facing the PLA in an interview with the South China Morning Post.

He said one key hindrance was the state of the country's machinery industry, even though the PLA had been upgrading to a more hi-tech force for a decade. Another problem was the lack of innovation in the industry sector.

Zhu said those 10 years, under the rule of former president Hu Jintao and former premier Wen Jiabao, had seen crucial gains made in military modernisation.

"Taking the air force as an example, we managed to take a huge step forward by replacing second-generation jet fighters with third-generation ones as the main force," he said.

Zhu said big strides had been made in developing anti-aircraft weapons and giving information technology a bigger role.

"More importantly, we saw an enormous improvement in the quality of our pilots," he said. "At present you can hardly find an officer who does not hold a bachelor's degree or higher."

More importantly, we saw an enormous improvement in the quality of our pilots. At present you can hardly find an officer who does not hold a bachelor's degree or higherHowever, Zhu said, Chinese industry had not progressed quite so rapidly. "To be honest, we've overlooked the problem of how difficult, complicated and time-consuming it is for us to upgrade the machinery industry in our country," he said


Zhu cited as an example the fact that the air force had to buy foreign engines for home-made fighter jets.

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The keyword here is "had to buy", and not "is buying". The general is technically right since Chinese aircraft previously have to install Russian engines. However, what was said does not contradict with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. You are just seeing stuff that isn't there.
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Chinese aero engine production have been more sail than ballast, so until WS10As are produced like popcorn, then people will hold reasonable doubt about Chinese turbofan engines.
 
broadsword

broadsword

Brigadier
Blackstone said:
Chinese aero engine production have been more sail than ballast, so until WS10As are produced like popcorn, then people will hold reasonable doubt about Chinese turbofan engines.
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Even if it is produced in low volume currently rather than like popcorn as in the US, the momentum is already set and there's no stopping it.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Blackstone said:
Chinese aero engine production have been more sail than ballast, so until WS10As are produced like popcorn, then people will hold reasonable doubt about Chinese turbofan engines.
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That is unreasonable... you would need to ask yourself this common sense question, why in the world would the Chinese produce more engines that they needed? So that they can keep these engines in the store?

They only have so many J-11B that needed the engines, anything more is a waste of precious capacity and money. And as pointed out, other fighters that are using Russian engines might not be because the WS-10A is not ready, but might be because, the fighter was designed to use Russian engines and to change to WS-10A, it will be very expensive and seriously not needed.

For the US and Russian engines... yes they are being produce in large number, mainly because there is a need and a demand for those engines... worldwide.
 
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