Chinese Economics Thread

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
What happened during the periods of dissolution? Did the country revert back to its background of traditional Kingdoms again of Wu and Chu etc Or was it just a continuing rebellion until one side won.?

Excluding size of China why wasn’t the mind set to revert back to different countries like Yugoslavia. or go the way of Italy when Rome Fell?
both except there is a difference with the "traditional (warring states) kingdoms". In the pre-imperial era, fighting kingdoms accept each others as equal political entities, after Qin, no fighting parties accept more than one imperial claimant, they either claim for themselves and rejecting anyone else or accept somebody else. So war would not finish until there is only one claimant left, the others are either killed or run far far away.

Very interesting question comparing with European examples. I was always and still asking it myself. Here is what so far I can come up.

In China, Zhou dynasty built the idea of "Mandate of Heaven", one can call it "God's will". During Zhou's time, although there were kingdoms, they all accepted to be the subjects of Zhou King (King of Kings). Qin just further strengthened that idea. So one can just say that the idea of "one sovereign (state) under the heaven" is the norm in Chinese (culture) mind at birth. There was never any other alternatives.

In Europe, there is no such counterpart idea. Greek was a democracy, city states, Rome too. Senators are equal in rights to Caesar, but lower in ranks. Co-existence of many equal city states was the norm in Greco-Roman (later European) mind at the birth of the civilisation. There was never any other alternatives.

One may then ask why that difference in between. I can't really answer, but that is close to "why the two people look different?" Maybe by some random chance. To be able to answer that we need knowledge before the Greco-Roman and Zhou time, but unfortunately the record is rare due to the time distance, we may never know.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
What happened during the periods of dissolution? Did the country revert back to its background of traditional Kingdoms again of Wu and Chu etc Or was it just a continuing rebellion until one side won.?

Excluding size of China why wasn’t the mind set to revert back to different countries like Yugoslavia. or go the way of Italy when Rome Fell?

This is an interesting, albeit OT question that probably belongs in the history forum.

I would say that had Qin's kingdom dissolved shortly after Qin Shihuang's death, we could very well have had a situation akin to Europe, and the Chinese state/civilization/culture might never exist.

Fortunately (depending on your point of view), the Han dynasty succeeded Qin, and it had 400 years of relatively stable rule. Those 400 years allowed the cementing of the imperial tradition in the minds of the Chinese people, such that when Han fragmented into the Three Kingdoms, each Kingdom was determined to restore the empire.

There could also be an argument that in addition to creating a unified Chinese culture, Qin Shihuang also began a tradition of infrastructure works (the most famous would be the Great Wall) that served to break down the traditional geographic barriers between kingdoms (ex: bridges, roads, etc), such that by the time the Three Kingdoms rolled by, it was militarily untenable for any of the Kingdoms to hold out indefinitely as an independent entity, even had they wanted to. (I believe the Wu most closely fit that profile, but even they were subjugated in the end.)

The First Emperor transitioned Chinese civilization from a slave society into a feudal society. It could be argued that Mao transitioned Chinese civilization from a feudal society into modern society.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Something related to Chinese economics
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just went to operation.

From here, there can be factories built along the line in both but primarily in Ethiopia, accelerating their industrialization, protecting them from natural disasters (due to overly dependent on agriculture). I hope and I am very confident that Ethiopia would be one of the economical locomotives in Africa.

It is the time for China to (and should) return the brotherly assistance from Africans from the early times. I want to see more development.
 

shen

Senior Member
Something related to Chinese economics
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just went to operation.

From here, there can be factories built along the line in both but primarily in Ethiopia, accelerating their industrialization, protecting them from natural disasters (due to overly dependent on agriculture). I hope and I am very confident that Ethiopia would be one of the economical locomotives in Africa.

It is the time for China to (and should) return the brotherly assistance from Africans from the early times. I want to see more development.

I'm curious what you are referring to by "brotherly assistance from Africans from the early times". Not that I disagree with your sentiment, I also have great sympathy and hope for Ethiopia.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm curious what you are referring to by "brotherly assistance from Africans from the early times". Not that I disagree with your sentiment, I also have great sympathy and hope for Ethiopia.
Thanks for asking. I am sure of your good intension.:)

By "brotherly assistance" I meant the support China received from African, and also Asian and Latin American countries in the early time of PRC's establishment. The support includes but is not limited to PRC's restoration of her UN's seat as successor to ROC in 1971. The then foreign minister of PRC, Marshal Chen Yi said that "China is carried into UN by Asian, African and Latin American brothers by hands", a figuratively speaking of the gratitude that PRC hold towards these countries. That gratitude is not just towards Ethiopia, but to many others. In Ethiopia's case, the tie may be a little deeper as the current ruling EPRDF is a "Communist front" which China supported during their struggle against their Soviet backed Communist rival the Derg government.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
It is nice that China help under developed part of the world like Africa and at the same time provide infrastructure to support China import from these country.

But China should not forget there are still awful lot of poor people in China . the latest PEW research show that large segment of population resent the largess that China bestow on developed country when it could be used better to alleviate poverty at home.
Another thing is where are those super rich of China they don't show any inclination to give back to the society
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Opportunity at 9,000 feet: Young teachers reach China's remotest poor


Without a preschool in China's mountain villages, the children of impoverished local farmers would follow further behind their city-born peers.
1007195_4_1009chinaed_standard.jpg



October 9, 2016 Chengbeihou, China—Not long ago, Guo Dekai would likely have been playing in the dirt by the side of the road with other five-year-olds, unkempt and unsupervised.

There was no preschool in this remote mountain village in western China, andevery day, Dekai would have fallen a little further behind his city-born peers, his prospects a little more limited.

Instead, he is sitting in a tiny blue plastic chair alongside two other kindergarten pupils, carefully considering which felt pen to use as he colors a drawing of a cat.

The program he is in – an innovative effort to put even the poorest children in the most isolated villages through preschool – will set him up for primary school and, perhaps, a brighter future.

“There are very few kids here, so they are not as confident as city kids who grow up with a lot of classmates,” says Dekai’s teacher, Qin Haixiong. “But their skills are just the same.”

Across China, now that early education is a new government priority, a spending drive means private and government-run kindergartens take care of about 70 percent of preschool-age children.

But Chengbeihou and villages like it are 9,000 feet up in the mountains of Qinghai province, several hours’ drive from the nearest town. They are beyond the reach of the government preschool network, and no private school would bother with them; the peasant farmers who live here raise meager crops of barley and potatoes and are too poor to pay fees.

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Closing the gap with cities
About 16 million Chinese youngsters between the ages of 3 and 6 are not enrolled in kindergarten. “And these are not rich kids who have babysitters,” says Lu Mai, head of the China Development Research Foundation, a Beijing-based think-and-do tank. Rather, they live in China’s most distant, hardscrabble villages.

The foundation, a government-linked group funded largely by foreign and Chinese corporations, is behind the Village Early Education Centers (VEECs), a pilot plan that Dekai and about 25,000 other children benefit from.

The project is deliberately aimed at the poorest 20 percent of Chinese children because “lack of access to preschools in remote villages further widens the existing gap in … school readiness between poverty regions and peri-urban and urban areas,” says a 2015 progress report on the seven-year-old effort.

In a bid to level the playing field for China’s youngest students, “we started this work from an equity perspective,” adds Mr. Lu. And in making its plans the foundation drew on such diverse sources as the US Head Start program and the barefoot doctors and horseback teachers of China’s Maoist era.

One key goal of the VEECs was that they should be free. To keep costs down, they have been set up in disused primary schools that have emptied of children as more and more peasant families have joined the rural exodus in search of city jobs.

Parents see a difference
Ms. Qin, Chengbeihou’s kindergarten teacher, grew up here. When she was a child, she recalls, there was no preschool, but the primary school crammed 200 children into its six classrooms. Today she uses one of those rooms to teach justfour preschoolers, and there is only one primary-school-age child in the village.

Vivacious and enthusiastic, Qin is typical of many of the teachers hired by the VEECs: local women in their early 20s, fresh out of teacher training. They are paid $250 a month, a third of what a fully fledged government-employed teacher gets, but there are few such jobs available.

Instead, most state-employed teachers in the countryside are given only temporary contracts that pay just $70 a month; a job at a VEEC is a significant step up, and also offers the opportunity for continuous training.

The difference these young teachers make is striking, says Guo Qiang, an illiterate peasant farmer in the nearby village of Jiujiashan who has put his two sons in the local early education center.

“They are much cleaner and they behave better at table,” says Mr. Guo. “Teacher tells them to take care of their things and themselves and they do. I can’t read, but I know my elder boy is doing well at his tests. Maybe if he is smart enough he could get a good job; he likes playing with his police car and says he’d like to drive one when he grows up.”

Next challenge: Scale it up
Wang Shengguo, the veteran primary school headmaster in Yahe, another mountain village, notices the difference, too. “In the past, kids coming into primary school knew much less than the kids coming out of kindergarten now,” he says. “They are more disciplined and they act in a more civilized way.”

That makes them easier to teach, Mr. Wang says. “Their test scores are much higher than they used to be,” he notes. “Kids used to get 40 to 50 percent. Now they get 80 to 90 percent. That’s about what urban kids get.”

That success is reflected in the results of an independent study last year, which found that children attending VEECs had the same levels of cognitive development as children in urban government-run kindergartens, and that their social behavior, emotional expression, and self-regulation scores were even better. All for about $5,000 a year per school.

The next task, says foundation head Lu Mai, is to convince the national government to scale his experiment up from the pilot stage, to bring its benefits to millions of children instead of tens of thousands. “To cut the generation-to-generation chain of poverty we need to start with early child development,” he says. “We have shown it can be done.”

Next
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
It is nice that China help under developed part of the world like Africa and at the same time provide infrastructure to support China import from these country.

But China should not forget there are still awful lot of poor people in China . the latest PEW research show that large segment of population resent the largess that China bestow on developed country when it could be used better to alleviate poverty at home.
Another thing is where are those super rich of China they don't show any inclination to give back to the society
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Opportunity at 9,000 feet: Young teachers reach China's remotest poor


Without a preschool in China's mountain villages, the children of impoverished local farmers would follow further behind their city-born peers.
1007195_4_1009chinaed_standard.jpg



October 9, 2016 Chengbeihou, China—Not long ago, Guo Dekai would likely have been playing in the dirt by the side of the road with other five-year-olds, unkempt and unsupervised.

There was no preschool in this remote mountain village in western China, andevery day, Dekai would have fallen a little further behind his city-born peers, his prospects a little more limited.

Instead, he is sitting in a tiny blue plastic chair alongside two other kindergarten pupils, carefully considering which felt pen to use as he colors a drawing of a cat.

The program he is in – an innovative effort to put even the poorest children in the most isolated villages through preschool – will set him up for primary school and, perhaps, a brighter future.

“There are very few kids here, so they are not as confident as city kids who grow up with a lot of classmates,” says Dekai’s teacher, Qin Haixiong. “But their skills are just the same.”

Across China, now that early education is a new government priority, a spending drive means private and government-run kindergartens take care of about 70 percent of preschool-age children.

But Chengbeihou and villages like it are 9,000 feet up in the mountains of Qinghai province, several hours’ drive from the nearest town. They are beyond the reach of the government preschool network, and no private school would bother with them; the peasant farmers who live here raise meager crops of barley and potatoes and are too poor to pay fees.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Closing the gap with cities
About 16 million Chinese youngsters between the ages of 3 and 6 are not enrolled in kindergarten. “And these are not rich kids who have babysitters,” says Lu Mai, head of the China Development Research Foundation, a Beijing-based think-and-do tank. Rather, they live in China’s most distant, hardscrabble villages.

The foundation, a government-linked group funded largely by foreign and Chinese corporations, is behind the Village Early Education Centers (VEECs), a pilot plan that Dekai and about 25,000 other children benefit from.

The project is deliberately aimed at the poorest 20 percent of Chinese children because “lack of access to preschools in remote villages further widens the existing gap in … school readiness between poverty regions and peri-urban and urban areas,” says a 2015 progress report on the seven-year-old effort.

In a bid to level the playing field for China’s youngest students, “we started this work from an equity perspective,” adds Mr. Lu. And in making its plans the foundation drew on such diverse sources as the US Head Start program and the barefoot doctors and horseback teachers of China’s Maoist era.

One key goal of the VEECs was that they should be free. To keep costs down, they have been set up in disused primary schools that have emptied of children as more and more peasant families have joined the rural exodus in search of city jobs.

Parents see a difference
Ms. Qin, Chengbeihou’s kindergarten teacher, grew up here. When she was a child, she recalls, there was no preschool, but the primary school crammed 200 children into its six classrooms. Today she uses one of those rooms to teach justfour preschoolers, and there is only one primary-school-age child in the village.

Vivacious and enthusiastic, Qin is typical of many of the teachers hired by the VEECs: local women in their early 20s, fresh out of teacher training. They are paid $250 a month, a third of what a fully fledged government-employed teacher gets, but there are few such jobs available.

Instead, most state-employed teachers in the countryside are given only temporary contracts that pay just $70 a month; a job at a VEEC is a significant step up, and also offers the opportunity for continuous training.

The difference these young teachers make is striking, says Guo Qiang, an illiterate peasant farmer in the nearby village of Jiujiashan who has put his two sons in the local early education center.

“They are much cleaner and they behave better at table,” says Mr. Guo. “Teacher tells them to take care of their things and themselves and they do. I can’t read, but I know my elder boy is doing well at his tests. Maybe if he is smart enough he could get a good job; he likes playing with his police car and says he’d like to drive one when he grows up.”

Next challenge: Scale it up
Wang Shengguo, the veteran primary school headmaster in Yahe, another mountain village, notices the difference, too. “In the past, kids coming into primary school knew much less than the kids coming out of kindergarten now,” he says. “They are more disciplined and they act in a more civilized way.”

That makes them easier to teach, Mr. Wang says. “Their test scores are much higher than they used to be,” he notes. “Kids used to get 40 to 50 percent. Now they get 80 to 90 percent. That’s about what urban kids get.”

That success is reflected in the results of an independent study last year, which found that children attending VEECs had the same levels of cognitive development as children in urban government-run kindergartens, and that their social behavior, emotional expression, and self-regulation scores were even better. All for about $5,000 a year per school.

The next task, says foundation head Lu Mai, is to convince the national government to scale his experiment up from the pilot stage, to bring its benefits to millions of children instead of tens of thousands. “To cut the generation-to-generation chain of poverty we need to start with early child development,” he says. “We have shown it can be done.”

Next

Anything published out of Christian Science Monitor about China has to be take with a huge grain of salt. They always seem to see China in a bad light or that if the government doesn't abide to Western values or anything that resembles to it are threatening to have a revolution by it's own people. Didn't China's CPC government have successfully uplifted 800 million people out poverty and another 500 million or so into middle class status (and growing)? I mean that is far better than any government or god out their in human history. Where's the news and praise by the Western media on that (no Nobel Prize on Economy)? Oh yeah because they need some bad news about China to keep their own brain washed masses attention away from the governments own incompetence and failure.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Anything published out of Christian Science Monitor about China has to be take with a huge grain of salt. They always seem to see China in a bad light or that if the government doesn't abide to Western values or anything that resembles to it are threatening to have a revolution by it's own people. Didn't China's CPC government have successfully uplifted 800 million people out poverty and another 500 million or so into middle class status (and growing)? I mean that is far better than any government or god out their in human history. Where's the news and praise by the Western media on that (no Nobel Prize on Economy)? Oh yeah because they need some bad news about China to keep their own brain washed masses attention away from the governments own incompetence and failure.

I don't think this article is indictment for the communist system in China . If anything it celebrate the individual initiative of few individual of course with the help of western NGO

I have no doubt that CCP has lifted million people out of poverty. But using their threshold of $1.50/day there are 40 million of people bellow it and if you use $3/day probably double that.

I understand it will take a long time to eradicate poverty, but that is a lot of people fall between the crack. Specially the migrant worker who is the unsung hero of China miracle but they benefit the least of the bounty. Because of vested interest of the town people in refusing to dismantle the much hated and most unfair system of Hukou. This problem is recognized in China. I watch CCTV regularly

There are few brave individual who use their own money to help this unfortunate kid but there too few of them and doesn't have the financial power to do it

Government cannot do everything sometime their hand are tie in due to inertia of regulation.
This is where the individual person should step up the plate and help.
I am disappointed with China new rich. They don't seem to have sense of civic duty at all. They have no problem buying over price real estate in Vancouver or San Francisco.
I don't the founder of Ali Baba or Tencent has foundation to advance education for the unfortunate kid

In the same stage of capitalist development the overseas Chinese did a lot better . The colonial government couldn't care less about the Chinese. But the annals of overseas Chinese are full with leading citizen take it up on themselves to build school. hospital, charity organization to help their own kind.

In fact they are so successful that eventually the colonial government are forced to open public school lest they alienate a large and wealthy population without any influence at all at the direction of the future generation
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
I don't think this article is indictment for the communist system in China . If anything it celebrate the individual initiative of few individual of course with the help of western NGO

I have no doubt that CCP has lifted million people out of poverty. But using their threshold of $1.50/day there are 40 million of people bellow it and if you use $3/day probably double that.

I understand it will take a long time to eradicate poverty, but that is a lot of people fall between the crack. Specially the migrant worker who is the unsung hero of China miracle but they benefit the least of the bounty. Because of vested interest of the town people in refusing to dismantle the much hated and most unfair system of Hukou. This problem is recognized in China. I watch CCTV regularly

There are few brave individual who use their own money to help this unfortunate kid but there too few of them and doesn't have the financial power to do it

Government cannot do everything sometime their hand are tie in due to inertia of regulation.
This is where the individual person should step up the plate and help.
I am disappointed with China new rich. They don't seem to have sense of civic duty at all. They have no problem buying over price real estate in Vancouver or San Francisco.
I don't the founder of Ali Baba or Tencent has foundation to advance education for the unfortunate kid

In the same stage of capitalist development the overseas Chinese did a lot better . The colonial government couldn't care less about the Chinese. But the annals of overseas Chinese are full with leading citizen take it up on themselves to build school. hospital, charity organization to help their own kind.

In fact they are so successful that eventually the colonial government are forced to open public school lest they alienate a large and wealthy population without any influence at all at the direction of the future generation

Actually at the last CPC and NPCC meetings China's government has a goal to eradicate hunger and thirst (not all of poverty yet) in the entire country by 2020.

Now as far as philanthropy goes in China one has to be careful about judging the big boys from the fake ones.

Here is what Tencent did to shape the philanthropy in China.

""The connectivity provided by theTencentFoundation has unlocked the potential of philanthropy and improved the efficiency of matching donors to the recipients. In addition, this connectivity has enhanced transparency by regularly sending donors messages of philanthropy information to help build trust." noted Dr. Meng Zhaoli, Chief Economist of theTencentResearch Institute and Deputy Secretary of theTencentFoundation. "This connectivity empowers NGOs and charities by linking them with Tencent's 800 million users and has increased the amount of small donations. Philanthropy and giving has become part of everyday life and now everyone can contribute towards public causes and charity. Together large amounts of small contributions are making a big change to entire communities and society."
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Now here is this shameful person line Chen Guangbiao who uses all kinds of publicity stunts to get media attention about his charity funding, only to be more of a fraud.

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So the bottom line is it's better to be a quiet and productive philanthropist that's creative and affective for the public than a showman ship snake oil sales man.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Trump won the 2nd debate, and real possibility of him becoming the president.
He's gonna destroy WTO, TTP, and 45% tariff on China will affect all other asian countries.

The entire Asia will go down.
 
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