Chinese Economics Thread

[Hendrik_2000]

Mao lovers obviously never live tthrough the famine and the cultural revolution.

Please ask people in their 60's and 70's what their experiences were like.

My parents didn't get much to eat during their teens even with help from oversea relatives. My mom beg her grandma for more congee but didn't get any because there simply weren't enough for the family.

The cultural revolution was an absolute reign of terror. People's corpses were hanging drom the streets, people were tortured in secret chambers, good people killed theirselves because they couldn't stand the humiliations and tortures, girls were forced (survival choice) to marry into red families because they came from "vermin" families. My dad had trouble getting into universities because my grandpa owned a small bakery.

All the things i described above came from my parents's personal experieces.

I would place vast majority of the balme on Mao's feet

I never said I worshiped or idolized Mao. You are wrong. You are not the only one who has relative that suffer during the cultural revolution.

But what I object is propaganda and campaign to smear, dehumanized China and Mao in particular. Like exaggerating the number of death and pulling number out thin air without any proof.

Let be fair without Mao there will be no new China period.The communist were loosing the war because the leadership hell bent on confronting the KMT head on the advice comintern under Otto Braun
Mao single handedly rescue the revolution after Zhunyi conference

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Some of my relative did return to China in 60's fire by patriotism but soon enough they found out that their China is nothing like what they imagine.

Coming mostly from capitalist family they suffer tremendously during cultural revolution. Most left China after the cultural revolution was over with government permission

I always think that Mao stay too long at the helm He should just retire after Korean war and he will remember as the father of the nation.But he didn't

As I said before It was bad and misguided economic policy out of ignorance and hubris coupled with the worst natural disaster. As result 18 million people die according to official accounting
Don't forget that China was under embargo at that time like North Korea today. And she can't buy even rice or flour on open market. Only Canada is willing to sell to China at that time which was acknowledge by premier Li Kechiang in the last visit
Yes Mao make mistake and should be held accountable for that But he also has merit just like DXP said

 

[Equation]

The Mao haters are usually those brain washed religious institutional organization trying to convert the whole world into believing their "god" and values are the only way for the world. Why do you think the west are having all sorts of religious war problems lately? With the rise of China and the legitimacy of the CPC that was able to uplifted 800 million people out of poverty and another hundreds of millions into middle class status (the most by any civilization or country in human history) this clearly threatens the elite religious institutional rulers status quo. They are afraid that the masses will turned away from their fundamental beliefs and into something else, perhaps even Communism (but I'm not holding my breath on that idea). That's why there are so many negative views about China in every turn from the western media whom has a special interests in maintaining that status quo at any cost. To my gladness they are failing...badly...at trying to get the rest of the world to see China as the next world domineering monster. Whether this geopolitical failure is the Obama administrative fault or someone as well, I don't care. The fact remains that now many people of the world no longer sees the western media as a viable source of objective reporting.

 

[KIENCHIN]

The Mao haters are usually those brain washed religious institutional organization trying to convert the whole world into believing their "god" and values are the only way for the world. Why do you think the west are having all sorts of religious war problems lately? With the rise of China and the legitimacy of the CPC that was able to uplifted 800 million people out of poverty and another hundreds of millions into middle class status (the most by any civilization or country in human history) this clearly threatens the elite religious institutional rulers status quo. They are afraid that the masses will turned away from their fundamental beliefs and into something else, perhaps even Communism (but I'm not holding my breath on that idea). That's why there are so many negative views about China in every turn from the western media whom has a special interests in maintaining that status quo at any cost. To my gladness they are failing...badly...at trying to get the rest of the world to see China as the next world domineering monster. Whether this geopolitical failure is the Obama administrative fault or someone as well, I don't care. The fact remains that now many people of the world no longer sees the western media as a viable source of objective reporting.

I am going to put my two cents worth before this thread is shut down by you know who. None of us truly believe in communism but during the time of Moa what other alternative was there? None of the so called righteous God fearing nations did the right thing and lifited a hand to stop the entire country from being torn to shreds. All they were concern about is what is there in it for me. Hendrick is right when he said Moa over stayed his tenure and it is my personal thoughts when I asked myself what China would have been like had the reformed minded faction taken over sooner. I may not see it in my life time but I know if China stays intact as strong and rich Nation democracy with Chinese characteristic will come.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Mao lovers obviously never live tthrough the famine and the cultural revolution.

Please ask people in their 60's and 70's what their experiences were like.

My parents didn't get much to eat during their teens even with help from oversea relatives. My mom beg her grandma for more congee but didn't get any because there simply weren't enough for the family.

The cultural revolution was an absolute reign of terror. People's corpses were hanging drom the streets, people were tortured in secret chambers, good people killed theirselves because they couldn't stand the humiliations and tortures, girls were forced (survival choice) to marry into red families because they came from "vermin" families. My dad had trouble getting into universities because my grandpa owned a small bakery.

All the things i described above came from my parents's personal experieces.

I would place vast majority of the balme on Mao's feet

So many people suffered under Mao. My grandmother was nearly driven to suicide; her house surrounded by people who questioned her commitment to the cultural revolution. They eventually seized her house. My grandfather was tarred and made to walk home in a potato sack because he spoke English. My other grandfather had his pay suspended and was demoted for expressing a thought that did not agree with the mainstream. He snuck food home to my grandmother and mother in the middle of the night so his colleagues wouldn't curse him for feeding them luxurious foods such as meat, fish and shrimp.

But no one in my family blames or hates Mao. He was the best China had. His mission was to make China independent and he achieved it. China was so weak and far behind, it was simply not possible to because rich, powerful, and independent at once. It could get a cheap and fast boost in economics and technology from calling other nations its master, but then it would possibly never have its true independent and proud identity. My family members all knew they made sacrifices for his mistakes but they were fine with it because of what would have been had Chiang Kai Shek (Jiang JieShi) come into power instead. He would have turned China into a rich man's dog, a vassal and pawn of the West to be a thorn in the side of the Soviet Union. The Chinese would have a better lifestyle immediately, but we would pay for that by never being able to raise our heads if it weren't for Mao. Mao's legacy was to give China a strong independent identity, to be a liege and not a minion, and his legacy perseveres into today's society, which built everything forth, our economy, our technological advances, and our military on the foundation that Mao Zedong laid.

 

[Jura The idiot]

I perhaps see now ... guys accused me of 'trolling', and of being a 'hater', here not because of asking about the bill (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-economics-thread.t3715/page-612#post-417992), but because of what I added

EDIT
by the way most of I've read about China when Mao was in charge was kinda related to

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"What's Happened on the Ussuri River" used to be a popular topic here some twenty years ago, when I very frequently debated in pubs and when very little was known about it, Conspiracy Theories and stuff LOL!

but I just fondly remembered those times, when I talked about many things for many hours over many drinks, for example at that time one of my many favorite topics was how

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conquered large chunks of Africa; since during his expeditions there were clashes with local population, would this make a hater of Black people??
or something more recent: on June 22 of this year, I had been describing for about a half of an hour to three guys in the pub the initial successes of

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(it was 75 years after), so would this make me a Nazi or what??

common guys, I just like to talk! and I'm curious about many things (I'm guessing right now you're calling me some dirty Chinese name

 

[broadsword]

What has RMB's inclusion into the SDR has nothing to do with Mao or China's old archane spat with Russia? Why do you have to interject controversial past issues into an economic event that the Chinese can celebrate? It was all economic going smoothly until you posted politics in the middle of our celebration, throwing it off tangent.

You are not Morgan Stanley and you did not conquer Africa or China. If you want interject politics, open another thread. Meanwhile, if China's economic achievements are too vile for you, try the "Unwatch" button.

 

[Blitzo]

I perhaps see now ... guys accused me of 'trolling', and of being a 'hater', here not because of asking about the bill (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-economics-thread.t3715/page-612#post-417992), but because of what I added

but I just fondly remembered those times, when I talked about many things for many hours over many drinks, for example at that time one of my many favorite topics was how

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conquered large chunks of Africa; since during his expeditions there were clashes with local population, would this make a hater of Black people??
or something more recent: on June 22 of this year, I had been describing for about a half of an hour to three guys in the pub the initial successes of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(it was 75 years after), so would this make me a Nazi or what??

common guys, I just like to talk! and I'm curious about many things (I'm guessing right now you're calling me some dirty Chinese name

Nothing wrong with liking to talk, but if you want to broach or dangle topics that have the potential to inflame people's opinions then you do need to reassess what you're actually writing. This isn't an open forum where anything goes; this is SDF, and is populated by a significant number of Chinese individuals who do have their own cultural, historical and societal sensitivities and norms and world views.

If you want to challenge those, then that is not an issue in and of itself, but if you do so in a facetious or underhanded way which is off topic (which was the case in this situation), then you're probably going to be accused of trolling, yes, and also not least because the forum has specific rules regarding what should and should not be broached (politics being one of them).
So, at best people would judge you as potentially being ignorant, at worst you would be accused of offering flame bait.

And please knock off the carefree innocence; if you really were ignorant of what you were writing, then maybe consider doing some introspection for why so many were hammering you with criticism.

I personally am not going to accuse you of being a troll -- I don't think you are being malicious necessarily -- but I do think you may have made the statement in ignorance or naivety. Hanlon's razor.

 

[Jura The idiot]

... Hanlon's razor.

LOL

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you guys are so serious here, but still I thought I could hang around with you ... I see the opinions here are not uniform, so I might learn how things really are in China

 

[Blitzo]

LOL

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you guys are so serious here, but still I thought I could hang around with you ... I see the opinions here are not uniform, so I might learn how things really are in China

People tend to be serious when certain touchy topics are sneakily prodded.


I'm not sure what you mean by "how things really are in China" -- but if you are really that curious you can either try to make a dedicated thread about it or go onto a different forum to discuss it (perhaps one which is not related to defence matters)... asking your question directly in a straight forward way would be far less insulting to our intelligence than trying to bait or insinuate things.

 

[tidalwave]

Goldman Sachs estimated that net capital outflows from China in the first quarter of 2016 were around $123 billion according to a report, 70 percent of which came from Chinese citizens funneling money out of the country. They do this in spite of harsher capital controls in 2016 and use either illicit methods like smuggling or legal ones like buying up Vancouver and New York real estate.