Chinese Economics Thread

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Lol You two are quite the pair. Calling to "Shut up" " China-hater" "mental disorder" is what you mean by being challenged? lol lol lol
I answer to sound challenge not drivel or ranting from your group of superficial fanboys without wit.
No no no, when I challenged you, and you gave some braindead, "You're clueless" or some crap like that. So far, everyone's displayed more wit than your pointless incessant nagging. Let's start here:
 

escobar

Brigadier
Worldwide the rhetoric right now is defintely overwhelmingly anti-China... and from a geopolitical standpoint it benefits the incumbent reigning hegemony to foster and propogate antiChina sentiment globally as part of its information warfare campaign and maintaining/gaining the lead of soft power against its greatest geopolitical foe/advarsary

Given that the vast majority of the internet out there is already overwhelmingly anti-China and pro-West/pro-US, one would think a forum like SinoDefenceForum would be one of the select few refuges of the Internet where it was okay to be pro-China...

Yet the likes of Orthan and Escobar would have one believe that even in small minority tiny circles one has to be pro-American to "be fair"... which is not unlike going onto Native American reservation lands and telling the natives that its racists/unfair to have overwhelmingly so many "natives" on these reservations and to be more balanced they should diversify more and make sure for every native living on the reservation that there is a white guy as well...
Fair? Small minority tiny circles? Why should I care about that?
"Pro-china" or "Anti-China" are superficial notion coming from sentimentalism based IR. I don't care about those silliness.
How to advance China geo-economics interest and demolish some countries attempt to constrain China is what matter.
 

escobar

Brigadier
No no no, when I challenged you, and you gave some braindead, "You're clueless" or some crap like that. So far, everyone's displayed more wit than your pointless incessant nagging. Let's start here:
And you called that a challenge response? Spare me those hollow and boring rhetoric whithout substance.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
And you called that a challenge response? Spare me those hollow and boring rhetoric whithout substance.
It was clearly more challenge than you can handle, and judging by its approval, everyone here seems to agree. Saying someone else is like a "Western China expert" when your posts are the spitting image of one, then saying that my posts were without substance when I basically did a point-to-point and all you could muster up is literally a one-liner is basically your sad attempt at "I know you are but what am I?" LOL Too bad being ironic doesn't win you any arguments...
 

dandelion clock

New Member
Registered Member
I appreciate you taking the time to write this thoughtful post. I think that our perspectives on the Australia-China relationship have a great deal in common. Like you, I have found Hugh White to be one of the most thoughtful Australian commentators on the relationship, both in terms of recognising how profoundly the rise of China alters our strategic environment and challenges the cultural assumptions that underpin how we see ourselves, our nation, and its place in the world. Professor White is also to be commended for laying out the full range of future policy directions available to Australia going forward, without the usual framing of "Australia and America together forever and ever and ever" that does so much to constrict public discussion here.

The most detailed account of my own thoughts on the Australia-China relationship can be found in this post from a couple months back. In brief, I think that the rise of China poses profound challenges for Australia, but not insurmountable ones. I believe that Australia should certainly seek to protect and promote its interests as a small nation operating in the shadow of great powers, and that multilateral institutions and a "rules-based global order" offer the best means of doing so. I think that a certain level of friction in the Australia-China relationship is to be expected and that Australia should not reflexively accede to the wishes of Beijing (or Washington), though we must always be conscious of the power relationships that exist. At the same time I am greatly troubled by the trends in the Australia-China relationship that we have seen these past several years. I believe that the Australian government has managed the relationship poorly, and in doing so has inflamed tensions to levels that are unnecessary and undesirable.

The call for an "independent investigation" into the origins of COVID was an appalling political misjudgment and I'm not sure which possible explanation for it is worse: that it came from a politically naïve Prime Minister unaware of what he was doing, or that it came from a Prime Minister who was fully aware of how that call would be received in China (amid broader controversies regarding western attitudes towards China's engagement with the established institutions of the "rules-based order", in this case the World Health Organisation) and chose to make it anyway.

I am worried about the level of cultural-political-institutional-strategic entanglement we have with the United States and the extent to which it compromises our capacity to act or even think clearly and independently about our interests and where those diverge from those of the United States. I am worried about the racial-cultural attitudes that underpin much of our anxiety about China: our combination of arrogance and anxiety that comes from our history as an Anglo outpost in Asia, established atop the wreckage the indigenous cultures we encountered. I am worried about our political system and media environment and how elements within those structures thrive off conflict and short-term domestic political gains at the expense of intelligent and sober husbandry of a critically important relationship that must endure indefinitely in the future.

So I am critical of many aspects of how we have handled our relationship with China. But I do want to outline one perspective that I believe carries weight within the Australian decision-making apparatus. That perspective explicitly views the Australia-China relationship as a long-term project, and believes that it best serves Australia to make a robust defence of its interests, and to weather the resulting diplomatic storm, now rather than later. The idea is that we can communicate to Beijing what our interests are, what we will and won't stand for, and the pressures that we will or won't accede to. In the short-term this is expected to result in choppy diplomatic waters as China tests our resolve, but it is hoped that this will be offset by a longer-term benefit of "setting the bounds" for the Australia-China relationship going forward into the future. Essentially, the idea is that it is better for Australia to weather China's displeasure now, while China's power is still relatively limited and the US still remains an effective guarantor of the prevailing international order, than to do so at some unspecified point in the future when the relevant power dynamics are decidedly less favourable for Australia. That's not to suggest that this is a sensible plan, or that it has been well carried out, but there is at least a rationale for why Australian decision-makers, conscious of the hostility they are provoking from China, are continuing to act as they do.

Unfortunately your post did not directly address my question, which was if and why Australia is actually seen as a noteworthy subject for discussion within China and in Chinese-language media. It is entirely to be expected that the relationship gets a lot of coverage in Australia, but from China's perspective I would've thought Australia would be well down the list of countries and relationships worthy of attention, irrespective of how well or poorly the relationship was going. Reading between the lines, you've suggested that Australia has "taken the lead" in the "western crusade" against China, functioning as Washington's "attack dog". If that perspective on Australia is indeed widely held within China then that is very regrettable and something that, I believe, we should seek to change. For as you say, there is no fundamental reason born of history or geography why Australia and China should not be able to enjoy a reasonably harmonious relationship that benefits both nations.
as maybe one of the few mainlanders on this forum, I think I can roughly sum up some common thinking or opinions, if short of consensus, from some major local Chinese-language platforms on this Australia matter, please forgive me if it sounds "politically incorrect" or if it comes as offensive:
1. China still needs to rely heavily on mineral products from Australia for a forseeable long period of time, despite everything else, and this is from our own perspective and thus China needs to be concerned about this relationship.

2. and this Sino-Australia relationship is decided and shapped by Sino-US relationship. It is not factually wrong to deem Australia (speaking of as a political entity) as some kind of devoted "sidekick ally" of US on the international political stage, the most loyal "rash fellow" (probably due to the combination of its land size as a would-be global power, its geopolitical location plus its mentaliy of a white colonialist formation, insecure yet proud) of the Anglo-Saxon country group.
Meanwhile, the Sino-US relationship is fundamentally one of competition and rivalry, and though as a supporter of China's own future democracatic reform myself, I have zero doubt, that even if China becomes a democracy, the US would still never allow any country to challenge its long-held and absolute global hegemony and dominance in any aspect. Thus comes the support for China which is usually reduced to "brainwashing effect" by the West.

3. this "call for 'independent COVID origin investigation'" explanation is far from being the major contributor, despite BBC pushed it to the forefront to make China look paranoid and being unreasonable. I remember during the Obama era, things also had once gone South to the point where China applied such informal economic sanctions on some Australian exports. And such call, made after US stopped funding to WHO, was definitely not primarily driven by Australia, which "has urged its allies to back an overhaul of the WHO and suggested recruiting independent investigators with similar powers as “weapons inspectors”---you bet China knew that and would not accept the latter term, although it agreed later on to a WHO-led inquiry. In fact, I thinking China has been tracing the origin from the very beginning, which is key to ultimately breaking the infection chain. So it's been more of rhetoric and exchange of words in effect, in between of so many other conspiracy theories and accusations the media and some politicians have been peddleing non-stop.
No, in fact Australia had come into the picture ever since US launched the trade war, especially since the Huawei saga, not to mention the involvement in the Hong Kong protest/riot, the "containment" of China by the Quad. Barring its own version of a tariff list, the former almost followed every single step of the latter, not to anyone's surprise really, which could be counted as another Australian stereotype besides the cute Kangaroos (sorry: ). And thus for your question of Australia's featuring in Chinese conversation, it is an observation on and reaction to these Anglo-Saxon countries' extremely coordinated and calculated move, the same with Huawei lady’s arrest by Canada, and more frequently it is a rebound of Australia's loud media towards one of the Axis of Evil which again always in sync with the other Five-eye media group, following one, following all.......

As I myself told a friend once before here, considering what China has been through for the last two centuries, and despite so many problems still within, ordinary Chinese have been dreaming, so long of a better-off life and of finding a more equal and confident footing for our people on the world stage, here I might add that as far as I can understand Australia's position, but we really have to depend on ourselves for that dream.......and then pray and prepare for Peace~
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Worldwide the rhetoric right now is defintely overwhelmingly anti-China... and from a geopolitical standpoint it benefits the incumbent reigning hegemony to foster and propogate antiChina sentiment globally as part of its information warfare campaign and maintaining/gaining the lead of soft power against its greatest geopolitical foe/advarsary

Given that the vast majority of the internet out there is already overwhelmingly anti-China and pro-West/pro-US, one would think a forum like SinoDefenceForum would be one of the select few refuges of the Internet where it was okay to be pro-China...

Yet the likes of Orthan and Escobar would have one believe that even in small minority tiny circles one has to be pro-American to "be fair"... which is not unlike going onto Native American reservation lands and telling the natives that its racists/unfair to have overwhelmingly so many "natives" on these reservations and to be more balanced they should diversify more and make sure for every native living on the reservation that there is a white guy as well...
The sickening part is that most of the anti China and pro west supporters are quite brain dead when they provide there reasonings and automatically use the same rhetoric as thought it is fact even though it is not true.
I guess in the end is that the media is very powerful in its brainwashing ability but as the virus is proving right now, it matters not. All it is showing in Rae fact is that china can deal with a crisis and for the most part, the west as failed badly. From India to the USA to the uk who have some of the anti China media out there with some of the most hateful people out there, I can’t help but feel that this is some what deserved at this point. Well ok, no matter how much hate is thrown out on reddit about China, when people in those places get infected by the virus, well does a people’s political leaning matter, the virus treats everyone equally.
Hence why I do find it quite karmic that the west as a whole is going though this pandemic so badly is that should they have chosen to work with China on this, the world would have beat this thing a long time ago, but due to all this stupid hate, well I guess this virus will forever continue in the west until millions more end up dead.
I honestly hope the world hegemony suffers because they have used this playbook far too often and killed far too many innocent people with the western world cheering or justifying there actions like the Aussie wiping there sins in Afghanistan under the rug (and this when they accuse China of the same act). One thing I do truly believe is that God has finally had enough of all the bullshit and lies and from this moment on, the world will see that God is not blessing America but passing rightful judgement given all these disasters (pandemic, health, economically, foreign and environmental) are happening right now for a reason. Nothing the USA can do can reverse this tread and I dare say that sooner or later, this anti China media frenzy will be replaced by fear and dread as the news will have no choice but to report a world super power going down in flames and all the victims that this empire has wrong will rise up and give the west the same treatment in return.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Hi emblem21,

Thanks bro, well there goes my theory, I need to ask cause it baffled my mind the course of action Australia is currently doing. So unlike with NZ which is more sensible.
After a landslide election win NZ appears to be changing direction in its foreign policy towards China when she has now joined the other 5 eye members and condemning Chinas actions in HK.

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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
After a landslide election win NZ appears to be changing direction in its foreign policy towards China when she has now joined the other 5 eye members and condemning Chinas actions in HK.

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Well, with the current Australia murders in regards to Afghan is going to be the moment where the world will now start of focus against Australia a bit more and thus more of these situations will be revealed to the world. Hence now Australia and the rest of the 5eyes had better be careful since if they try to keep causing trouble, this will cause them suffering in the future. They will eventually have to stop with this human rights bullshit since this approach may work in the west and all those dumb down people but it will never work anywhere else. Imagine if the Muslim world is armed with Chinese tech ending up declaring war on Australia or NZ at a critical time, that will be scary but I wouldn't blame them since they willingly went into the middle east to cause harm, it is high time that this will come back to bite and hopefully the sight of dead Australia/NZ soldiers will wake them up to see that maybe blindly supporting the US isn't a very good idea and if they don't learn that well, the playing field will be leveled
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
After a landslide election win NZ appears to be changing direction in its foreign policy towards China when she has now joined the other 5 eye members and condemning Chinas actions in HK.

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Hong Kong should just stand up strongly and refute these foreign comments. HK is doing way better than any of these Aussies or NZ villagers.
 
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