Chinese Aviation Industry


gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
The MRJ sounded like a great idea. It was ahead of its time. Since they could not deliver they kept downgrading the specs. It is now irrelevant I think. You got the Bombardier CSeries/Airbus A220 which has some composites in it and occupies almost the same segment. I think by now it is too late to expect the MRJ to put much of a dent into the international market. They probably don't think the Japanese market alone is enough to justify the investment. MHI has proven it can manufacture aircraft. The F-2 is an example of that. But for a plane like this I wonder why they didn't go with Kawasaki which manufactures the P-1 and C-2. Those seem more relevant to me at least in scope.

The ARJ21 is kind of old tech and took forever to come out but at least it made it through. Sometimes just surviving is a feat in itself.
 
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ansy1968

Senior Member
Registered Member
The MRJ sounded like a great idea. It was ahead of its time. Since they could not deliver they kept downgrading the specs. It is now irrelevant I think. You got the Bombardier CSeries/Airbus A220 which has some composites in it and occupies the same segment. I think by now it is too late to expect the MRJ to put much of a dent into the international market. They probably don't think the Japanese market alone is enough to justify the investment. MHI has proven it can manufacture aircraft. The F-2 is an example of that. But for a plane like this I wonder why they didn't go with Kawasaki which manufactures the P-1 and C-2. Those seem more relevant to me at least in size.

The ARJ21 is kind of old tech and took forever to come out but at least it made it through. Sometimes just surviving is a feat.
Hi gelgoog,

Bombardier CSeries is a perfect aircrafts for COMAC, I know selling it to AVIC is impossible but look at the possibility, The product range complement with C919, at Airbus it compete with one of its product line A319 and making its factory redundant.
 

gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
...
Bombardier CSeries is a perfect aircrafts for COMAC, I know selling it to AVIC is impossible but look at the possibility, The product range complement with C919, at Airbus it compete with one of its product line A319 and making its factory redundant.
Well it wasn't competitive anymore. The basic A320 airframe, which is what the A319 is based on, is old like heck. Much heavier. You are basically comparing a shortened version of an old airframe with a new airframe designed for that size class. I think Airbus got a steal with that acquisition of the CSeries for €1 or whatever it was they paid.

If COMAC tried to acquire it they would probably have run into issues. In fact I am surprised the Canadians even sold it to Airbus. Hadn't it been for Boeing trying to bury Bombardier it would have never happened.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
There are a lot of comment article on MRJ go back say hundred of post But why bother it is dead and will never revive Japan is only small market and they have zero chance of commercially successful All you have to see is what happened to Bombardier and Brazilian Embraer
A particularly insane business development decision for the MRJ/Spacejet was Mitsubishi deciding to gamble on the scope clause changes (spoiler: which didn't happen).
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Good article via Emperor. You have to crawl before you can run I have heated debate with TP Huang He always belittle the ARJ21 But history prove otherwise compare to the competitor like Bombarider, Mitsubishi, even Embraer Just surviving is a feat by itself let alone blooming. Now where is Aboulafia the Aviation analyst who badmouth ARj21 at every turn
That is the point of the ARJ21 – to allow the manufacturer to hone its design, integration, manufacturing and support capabilities before the arrival of more sophisticated jets such as the C919 and CR929.

Whether Comac has learned these lessons remains to be seen, but to assess the regional jet against purely financial benchmarks is to misread the programme’s true purpose.


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Why Comac is playing long game with ARJ21
By Flight International10 July 2020

From a certain standpoint it is easy to dismiss the Comac ARJ21. Cynics scoff that it is nothing more than a warmed-over McDonnell Douglas MD-80, offering airlines yesterday’s technology today.

A development cycle that stretched across decades and early production examples that appeared to lack sophistication – Wikipedia describes the regional jet as “structurally conservative” – have done nothing to dispel the impression of a deeply underwhelming programme.

Until nearly $4 billion-worth of orders arrived from China’s big three carriers last year, the ARJ21 appeared destined solely for the country’s second-tier operators.


Of course, with Beijing holding a stake in all the businesses involved, there will always be doubts about the motivation for the orders in the first place, but the success of the programme should not be judged on those deals in isolation.

It is the simultaneous delivery of the first examples to those blue chip carriers – Air China, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines – and the increasing maturity of the twinjet and Comac’s manufacturing and support processes that are the key measures.

Yes, the ARJ21 can be viewed as a modest success in its own right, but its value will be seen further down the line as the airframer’s future programmes progress.

Compared with its Western rivals Comac is an aerospace fledgling.

That is the point of the ARJ21 – to allow the manufacturer to hone its design, integration, manufacturing and support capabilities before the arrival of more sophisticated jets such as the C919 and CR929.

Whether Comac has learned these lessons remains to be seen, but to assess the regional jet against purely financial benchmarks is to misread the programme’s true purpose.
 

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